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tenderobject
28-Nov-2009, 21:26
hello again! :)

i have a good friend lend me an industar 11m 300cm f/9.

right now i'm trying to research some info about russian lenses for LF. I've been using russian lenses for my miniature cameras and mediumformat and i'm quite happy with how these russian lenses performs.

ok, the lens that i have right now seems to be a tessar design and i think it is used for reproduction/enlargements but can be use in 18x24 wooden plate camera..

are there any more good russian lenses for LF? yes, that will cover 5x7 or more. no petzval copy for russian no?

can someone post pictures taken with their russian lenses please?

thanks for the help.. again..

i've tried to search russian lenses here but i think my keywords is not enough..

regards

J

Brian Stein
28-Nov-2009, 23:07
The primary lenses I am aware of are the industarś mostly made by GOMZ which were tessars; some folks think they are none too sharp but as usual others vary.

If you search under industar in LFF youĺl find a bunch of threads.

Also http://www.mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/industar-51.html
http://www.kpraslowicz.com/2009/09/09/attack-of-the-30-lenses-%E2%80%93-210mm-industar-51/

A couple of other links

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/docter-optik.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/25043-lomo-lf-lenses-informations-required.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/22230-industar-11m-300-9-results-excellent-plus-plus.html

tenderobject
28-Nov-2009, 23:23
The primary lenses I am aware of are the industarś mostly made by GOMZ which were tessars; some folks think they are none too sharp but as usual others vary.

If you search under industar in LFF youĺl find a bunch of threads.

Also http://www.mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/industar-51.html
http://www.kpraslowicz.com/2009/09/09/attack-of-the-30-lenses-%E2%80%93-210mm-industar-51/

A couple of other links

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/docter-optik.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/25043-lomo-lf-lenses-informations-required.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum44/22230-industar-11m-300-9-results-excellent-plus-plus.html


thanks brian. i've checked some of the sites youmentioned.. will check the others..

seen some images from industar 51 210mm but none for the industar 11-m. there is also a version of the 300mm with big aperture. will research more. hopfully some users would give some useful insigths about these russian LF lenses and show their photos.

thank you. :)

K. Praslowicz
30-Nov-2009, 06:39
I picked up the 300mm/f4.5 Industar-37 a few months ago. I've been lazy though and haven't finished mounting it to a lens board yet to try and use it. The I-37 is quite large, but it should fit on a 4x4 board.

Here is a photo of the industar-37 side by side with an Industar-51 mounted on a 4x4 board. I put my hand in the frame to help show scale.

http://www.kpraslowicz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/industar-37.jpg

I should stop being lazy and get some shots with this lens.

Dan Fromm
30-Nov-2009, 08:17
For three catalogs of lenses made in the Soviet Union, go here: http://www.lallement.com/pictures/files.htm Also root around here: http://www.photohistory.ru/Wood.html and here: http://www.zenit.istra.ru/catalog/lenseslist.html These last two are more up-to-date.

Knowing Russian helps, isn't absolutely necessary.

IMO, relatively few "Russian" lenses for LF are readily available and none are easily/cheaply used because their cells won't go into standard shutters. But if you have, say, a Speed Graphic or are willing to live with a Packard shutter's limitations, some of them may be worth playing with.

Petzvals? AFAIK all of the lenses made in the Soviet Union that cover large formats are anastigmats. I mean, why copy antiques when there are modern lenses to copy?

jb7
30-Nov-2009, 09:00
They look a lot like Apo Ronars...

Dan Fromm
30-Nov-2009, 09:04
They look a lot like Apo Ronars...Yeah, right. A tessar is a dialyte. All process lenses look alike in the dark.

jb7
30-Nov-2009, 09:19
How specific do you need me to be?
The barrel is almost a perfect match for my Apo Ronar process lens.

That ok?

Ok for me to have an opinion too?

Dr Klaus Schmitt
30-Nov-2009, 18:43
Dan's comment was about the lens design, not the looks ...

Mike1234
1-Dec-2009, 07:13
And I think Dan was also sneaking in a little wry humor. :)

domaz
1-Dec-2009, 11:54
Also good not to start rumors. Next thing you know these lenses will appear on Ebay, people claiming they are copies of Apo Ronar and this forum will be linked as proof..

tenderobject
2-Dec-2009, 09:44
thanks for the info guys! hopefully some people who have experienced with these lenses post some comments and images much better :)

K. Praslowicz
18-Jan-2011, 13:35
Here we are over a year later and I've finally got my Industar 300/4.5 strapped to a Speed Graphic. Just made a few test exposure on an intersection a block away with front tilt. Defiantly should see that fun miniaturization effect that all the kids love these days.

c.d.ewen
18-Jan-2011, 15:49
K:

The photo in your earlier post has disappeared. For the curious, I'll attach a photo of the big I-37 (f/4.5), the smaller I-51 (f/4.5), and the tiny I-11M (F/9), all 300mm lenses. The I-11M is small enough to front mount onto a Copal 3 (not that I've ever gotten around to taking a picture with it :o ).

Any production, yet, out of the I-37?

Charley

panchro-press
18-Jan-2011, 16:25
Over a year ago, I tried to find information on pre-revolution Russian portrait lenses and hit a brick wall...or was that the Kremlin?

Dave

Ben Syverson
18-Jan-2011, 16:28
I have some shots from the Industar 37 I can post soon... To get around the lack of shutter, I used it in a darkened studio with strobes.

It's a very sharp lens with pleasingly neutral out-of-focus rendition. It definitely has that clean "process" look.

Dan Fromm
18-Jan-2011, 16:39
But Ben, it isn't a process lens. Just an ordinary garden variety f/4.5 tessar.

K. Praslowicz
18-Jan-2011, 18:29
The photo in your earlier post has disappeared.

My server has been experiencing some Denial of Service attacks the last few days and has been unavailable most of today. Should be back now.


Any production, yet, out of the I-37?

Attached is an image shot at F/4.5 with a boatload of front tilt. I'm also not bothering to deal with all the dust the image.

Cor
19-Jan-2011, 05:18
I use the f4.5 Industar 300mm frequently for wet plate collodion work, it hasn't a strong signatue likea Petzval off course, but I was not after that anyway, it's quite sharp, even use wide open (not enlarged off course)

Here is an example at f32, wet plate collodion, exposure 2 minutes in a drizzle..

It's the lock of Ezumazijl, Friesland province, The Netherlands

Enjoy,

Cor

Steven Tribe
19-Jan-2011, 06:42
Dave, there was at least one maker of pre-1917 objectives in Russia. I remember he had a "German" name - but more details I don't recall. There were also makers in "Old Poland" which was part of the Russian Empire at that time (?).

Michael Graves
19-Jan-2011, 06:50
I'm not entirely sure what the fuss is all about. If a lens gives good results, it is a good lens. I recently saw a calendar of Russian swimsuit models and realized I didn't give a rats arse what kind of lens the photographer used.

MIke Sherck
19-Jan-2011, 07:09
I'm not entirely sure what the fuss is all about. If a lens gives good results, it is a good lens. I recently saw a calendar of Russian swimsuit models and realized I didn't give a rats arse what kind of lens the photographer used.

Hmm. I think we'll need some evidence for that. If you could post some of the calendar pictures... ;)

Mike

tenderobject
21-Jan-2011, 04:02
i like the lens i got! although, i haven't use it again since i purchased a few barrel lenses..

here is a sample i made. almost my first few frames when i started LF photography. not much i did the past year. hopefully i could shoot more this year!


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4810738462_af8efea56b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tenderobject/4810738462/)
Woman, Waiting pt. 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tenderobject/4810738462/) by tenderobject (http://www.flickr.com/people/tenderobject/), on Flickr

Ansco 5x7
Industar 11m 30cm f/1:9
Efke 25

Arne Croell
21-Jan-2011, 10:26
Dave, there was at least one maker of pre-1917 objectives in Russia. I remember he had a "German" name - but more details I don't recall.

The company in St. Petersburg that is now LOMO was founded in 1914, under a different name of course(http://www.lomoplc.com/aboutlomoFrames.htm); there were several name changes during Soviet times, too: GOZ-GOMZ-VOOMP-LOOMP-LOMO. The acronyms are based on the Russian names. In addition, there were other companies later, including KOMZ (made the Industar 51 and 37) in Kazan, KMZ in Krasnogorsk, and MMZ in Minsk, later renamed Belomo, in what is now Belorussia. All of these made some LF or process lenses; and don't forget the Government Optical Institute GOI, founded in 1918 in St. Petersburg/Leningrad. GOI designed or checked the design of most Soviet lenses.

panchro-press
21-Jan-2011, 18:26
Thanks, Steven, I'll keep trying.

Dave

tenderobject
21-Jan-2011, 21:26
The company in St. Petersburg that is now LOMO was founded in 1914, under a different name of course(http://www.lomoplc.com/aboutlomoFrames.htm); there were several name changes during Soviet times, too: GOZ-GOMZ-VOOMP-LOOMP-LOMO. The acronyms are based on the Russian names. In addition, there were other companies later, including KOMZ (made the Industar 51 and 37) in Kazan, KMZ in Krasnogorsk, and MMZ in Minsk, later renamed Belomo, in what is now Belorussia. All of these made some LF or process lenses; and don't forget the Government Optical Institute GOI, founded in 1918 in St. Petersburg/Leningrad. GOI designed or checked the design of most Soviet lenses.

nice info! thanks

Dan Fromm
22-Jan-2011, 06:54
tenderobject, follow the links I posted in post #5 in this thread.

tenderobject
22-Jan-2011, 10:56
tenderobject, follow the links I posted in post #5 in this thread.

thank you very much dan!!!

tenderobject
22-Jan-2011, 13:25
K:

The photo in your earlier post has disappeared. For the curious, I'll attach a photo of the big I-37 (f/4.5), the smaller I-51 (f/4.5), and the tiny I-11M (F/9), all 300mm lenses. The I-11M is small enough to front mount onto a Copal 3 (not that I've ever gotten around to taking a picture with it :o ).

Any production, yet, out of the I-37?

Charley

this is nice. so the I-11m would fit on copal 3? yay! will have to look for a shutter then or a graflex hehe

Dan Fromm
22-Jan-2011, 14:05
Think hard about which "Graflex" you want. If Graflex, as in SLR, some types have limited extension. If Speed Graphic, they all have limited extension.

Also think hard about which Industar 11-M you want. Industar is Soviet-speak for tessar type. The number that follows "Industar," for example 51, indicates design number and usually indicates focal length too. All I-51s are 210s, and so on. But the designation I-11M covers a family of lenses, all clones of the CZJ Apo-Tessar. Focal lengths include 150, 300, 360, and 450 mm. I think I've seen a 600, could be mistaken.

Sevo
22-Jan-2011, 14:36
Also think hard about which Industar 11-M you want. Industar is Soviet-speak for tessar type.

And they are the spitting image of the matching Zeiss (GDR)/Pentacon/Meyer barrel type Tessars. The latter turn up in a wider range of focal lengths, and are mostly newer, cleaner and better made - and often more affordable, too.

tenderobject
22-Jan-2011, 14:59
Think hard about which "Graflex" you want. If Graflex, as in SLR, some types have limited extension. If Speed Graphic, they all have limited extension.

Also think hard about which Industar 11-M you want. Industar is Soviet-speak for tessar type. The number that follows "Industar," for example 51, indicates design number and usually indicates focal length too. All I-51s are 210s, and so on. But the designation I-11M covers a family of lenses, all clones of the CZJ Apo-Tessar. Focal lengths include 150, 300, 360, and 450 mm. I think I've seen a 600, could be mistaken.

wow thanks a lot for the info's dan.. would like to get speed graphic for my barrel lenses (is it rare to get a 5x7 speed graphic?). :) hit and miss when i'm using barrel lenses and i'm new in LF photography so still trying to learn! i was going to get the I-57 because of the larger aperture. but right now i think it's better to play around with what i have so far.. the I-57 and my I-11m are all the same when it comes to lens design right? so both will just perform the same. it's just that I-57 (which i think is more expensive than I-11m) has bigger aperture. am i right?

thanks again guys! i need to shoot these barrel lenses that i have. right now i'm on using paper negs. hope i could post some shots here later.

Arne Croell
22-Jan-2011, 15:20
T But the designation I-11M covers a family of lenses, all clones of the CZJ Apo-Tessar. Focal lengths include 150, 300, 360, and 450 mm. I think I've seen a 600, could be mistaken.
Also 750, 900, and 1200mm.

Dan Fromm
22-Jan-2011, 16:18
Thanks, Arne.

tenderobject, go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs.

Also, did you mean Industar-57 or -51? I ask because I'm not acquainted with the -57. The -51 is a 210/4.5, can be easily be used on 3x4 and larger Speed Graphics. I tried one out on my 2x3 Speed -- long story -- and rejected it as not sharp enough. Soviet lenses seem to be quite variable in quality.

tenderobject
22-Jan-2011, 19:35
Thanks, Arne.

tenderobject, go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs.

Also, did you mean Industar-57 or -51? I ask because I'm not acquainted with the -57. The -51 is a 210/4.5, can be easily be used on 3x4 and larger Speed Graphics. I tried one out on my 2x3 Speed -- long story -- and rejected it as not sharp enough. Soviet lenses seem to be quite variable in quality.

thanks for the link dan!

the industar-57 300mm is a 4.5 right? i agree with the soviets quality.. although early made lenses (in miniature format) looks quite good when it comes to quality.

Arne Croell
23-Jan-2011, 04:25
thanks for the link dan!

the industar-57 300mm is a 4.5 right? i agree with the soviets quality.. although early made lenses (in miniature format) looks quite good when it comes to quality.

I haven't heard about or seen an Industar-57 either - of course that does not mean it doesn't exist, every surprise is possible when it comes to Soviet lenses... The 4.5/300mm Industars I am aware of are the Industar-11 (without the "M" of the f/9 Apo-Tessar copies, it was made before WWII), Industar-13, Industar-37, and Industar-55. The 13 and 37 were made by KOMZ, the 55 by GOMZ. Note that there was another Industar-55 with 140mm focal length, a lens for a 9x12cm view camera named "Techno", as well as an Industar-55y (actually 55u, y is the cyrillic u, made by MMZ/Belomo) with 140mm focal length, an enlarging lens.

tenderobject
23-Jan-2011, 07:00
I haven't heard about or seen an Industar-57 either - of course that does not mean it doesn't exist, every surprise is possible when it comes to Soviet lenses... The 4.5/300mm Industars I am aware of are the Industar-11 (without the "M" of the f/9 Apo-Tessar copies, it was made before WWII), Industar-13, Industar-37, and Industar-55. The 13 and 37 were made by KOMZ, the 55 by GOMZ. Note that there was another Industar-55 with 140mm focal length, a lens for a 9x12cm view camera named "Techno", as well as an Industar-55y (actually 55u, y is the cyrillic u, made by MMZ/Belomo) with 140mm focal length, an enlarging lens.

yikes, i'm sorry arne. my mistak.. it should be I-37 not 57.. a typo or i'm just ignorant.. :)

Arne Croell
23-Jan-2011, 10:44
yikes, i'm sorry arne. my mistak.. it should be I-37 not 57.. a typo or i'm just ignorant.. :)

:-) sure, typos happen all the time!
But-one has to be careful here because of the way the Soviet lenses were named: The name (Industar, Orion, Uran etc.) designates the design type, the number designates for what format and camera it is - if you know the lists. An error by one digit could mean the difference between an 8x10 lens and a 35mm one, or the difference between a small lens with Leica screw mount and a monster of an aerial lens.

K. Praslowicz
28-Mar-2011, 09:31
Here is one of the 210 Industar with color film. I used some front rise, and was treated to some color shifting in the corners.

http://img.kpraslowicz.com/share/torn.jpg (http://www.kpraslowicz.com/photo/house-razing/)