Jobo ATL1000 Questions

[Lannon]

Hi Guys

First post so I apologise if I am covering old ground. Have done a search through previous forums and couldn't find an answer.

I have been given a Jobo Autolab ATL1000 but haven't processed through it yet.

I had a couple of questions relating to its use.

Firstly: Does the ATL1000 heat the water to 20 degrees c for B/W or does the temp controlled water input heat the dev? Do I need the temp controlled water for b/w or not?
I have read the instructions and all the forums and still don't know. I am not stressed if the wash cycles are not stable temps.

Secondly: Does anyone have any times for Hp5+ and Xtol with the ATL1000?

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the help.

Cheers

Lannon

www.lannonharley.com

[darr]

Firstly: Does the ATL1000 heat the water to 20 degrees c for B/W or does the temp controlled water input heat the dev? Do I need the temp controlled water for b/w or not?


1. No
2. No. I find my normal ground water temperature should be sufficient enough for slight time adjustments with your developing time. I do not use Xtol so I cannot help with that question.

See this post to see how I control my water temp for black and white. (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=448480&postcount=11)

Darr

[vinny]

#2 yes you need controlled water temp for B+W film. Where I live, tap water varies from 65-80 degrees depending on the season. If you want any consistency and don't have a constant temp ground water source, pick a temp and stick with it. Ilford has a chart with time changes for varying temps.

[percepts]

I think its standard temp is 24degC or 38degC. I don't think you can change that. If its working properly the sensor in the dev bottle starts it automatically when the temp in the dev bottle reaches 24degC if it's on a B+W program.

If you don't have a tempered water supply and just give it a cold water feed, then it won't start until the water bath has heated to 24degC which in turn heats the dev bottle. \you may have long wait for that to happen if water bath heater isn't working.

If you put dev into the dev bottle which is 24degC or hotter then it will start immediately which is not good if your water bath is not correct temp as it will cool dev.

This all assumes everything is working properly. Very often stuff doesn't work properly on old machines so you will need to play with it to see what does and doesn't work.
If you want to do colour then you really must have a temp controlled water feed. Best to have one for B+W too as it save messing about.

rotary development needs approx 15% less dev than for the same temp in small tank inversion process.

[Renato Tonelli]

What percepts says is correct. I have an ATL1500 which is essentially the same. Where I use this unit, temperature-regulated water is not a possibility, therefore:

I warm up the chemicals in their working-dilutions in bottles I have for that purpose. When they are at 24C, I pour the chemicals in the Processor's bottles. Just before I start the processor, I manually pour 24C water into the developing tank area, up to the water mark. I turn the processor on and it starts right away.

[Joanna Carter]

What percepts says is correct. I have an ATL1500 which is essentially the same. Where I use this unit, temperature-regulated water is not a possibility, therefore:

I warm up the chemicals in their working-dilutions in bottles I have for that purpose. When they are at 24C, I pour the chemicals in the Processor's bottles. Just before I start the processor, I manually pour 24C water into the developing tank area, up to the water mark. I turn the processor on and it starts right away.
I also use an ATL1500 and can't rely on a thermostatic mixer tap because we have a multipoint boiler that tends to send cold water until it gets up to temperature.

My solution is to use a 25ltr bucket which I fill with water heated to the correct temperature, for the rinse water; together with a 12v caravan water pump, connected to the low pressure inlet. I use a Nova Darkroom submersible heater to keep the correct temperature.

According to the Jobo instructions, you should put the chemistry into the bottles at significantly less than the desired temperature: less than 22°C for B&W, less than 30°C for E6. This is so that the water bath, the processing drum and, more importantly for E6, the first developer, have a chance to get up to a steady temperature before processing begins.

[Renato Tonelli]

I have heard about the 12v caravan water pump before - who sells it and how does know when to pump the water in?

I currently have an original Jobo pump but sometimes it is temperamental.

[Joanna Carter]

I have heard about the 12v caravan water pump before - who sells it and how does know when to pump the water in?
I bought the caravan pump from a boat chandlers but, as you would expect, you can get them from a caravan spares shop.

On the back of the Jobo, there are three connections: the high pressure inlet, which takes a washing machine connector; the low pressure inlet, which you have to use a Jubilee clip to connect the hose; and a 1/4" jack socket. The 1/4" jack socket is the 12v outlet that you connect the pump to and which is switched on and off by the processor at the appropriate points in the processing cycle.

[percepts]

Not the cheapest option but one of the best. Has a digital LCD readout and at turn of the dial you can set 24 or 38 deg output temp( or a couple of degrees below) and get instant water at correct temp. Saves a huge amount of pratting about with buckets, measuring temps, plate fulls of spaghetti wiring and tubes.

http://www.stiebel-eltron.de/en/privatkunden/warmwasser/produkte/durchlauferhitzer/vollelektronisch-geregelte-durchlauferhitzer/

[Bjorn Nilsson]

The ATL1000 does heat up the water, but it doesn't cool it if it's too hot. So if you see to that the connected water is e.g. at 22-23 degC you're fine. Then it will start processing when the developer in the number 1 tank is at 24deg. (There is a thermometer in the developer tank.)
As modern b/w film is quite stable you don't have to worry about the washing water being a couple degrees too cold or hot. (i.e. as long as it doesn't go from 15 to 30 and back...) If you can set the water supply to somewhat colder than the desired 24deg, you will be fine.
(As you use HP5 you should be fine. The only films which I recon would be sensitive to e.g. a 10 or even 5 deg sudden temp shift are Efke and maybe Foma films. I.e. films with soft unhardened gelatine.)

//Björn

[Renato Tonelli]

I didn't know this. I have a Jobo ATL-1500 which is supposed to be the same as the ATL-1000; the ATL-1500 allows you to reprogram processing times but it does not have a heating element to warm up the chemistry or the water bath.




The ATL1000 does heat up the water, but it doesn't cool it if it's too hot. So if you see to that the connected water is e.g. at 22-23 degC you're fine. Then it will start processing when the developer in the number 1 tank is at 24deg. (There is a thermometer in the developer tank.)
As modern b/w film is quite stable you don't have to worry about the washing water being a couple degrees too cold or hot. (i.e. as long as it doesn't go from 15 to 30 and back...) If you can set the water supply to somewhat colder than the desired 24deg, you will be fine.
(As you use HP5 you should be fine. The only films which I recon would be sensitive to e.g. a 10 or even 5 deg sudden temp shift are Efke and maybe Foma films. I.e. films with soft unhardened gelatine.)

//Björn

[Joanna Carter]

I didn't know this. I have a Jobo ATL-1500 which is supposed to be the same as the ATL-1000; the ATL-1500 allows you to reprogram processing times but it does not have a heating element to warm up the chemistry or the water bath.
Yes it does or, at least, it should have. What makes you think otherwise?

[percepts]

The heating element heats the water bath only. The tanks sit in the water bath and are heated via convection from the water bath. The no 1 tank (for developer) has a temperature probe in it and when that probe measures 24 deg or above (38 for colour program ) it starts the processor cycle.

I can't remember if the heating element is visible on the 1000 which I used but it was broken anyway. It was run manually as someone had messed with electrics so it always started when you closed the lid regardless of the temperature.

[Joanna Carter]

The no 1 tank (for developer) has a temperature probe in it and when that probe measures 24 deg or above (38 for colour program ) it starts the processor cycle.
Which is why you should never heat up E6 chemistry to more than 30°, otherwise the tank warming cycle will be cut short and you may get unpredictable results as the drum may cool the chemistry if the water bath is not at the same temperature.

[Renato Tonelli]

Yes it does or, at least, it should have. What makes you think otherwise?

The first time I used it, I filled with water at about 21C; I expected the water to be brought up to the 24C working temperature. An 30 minutes later the processor had not not started. I assumed it didn't have a heating element. This particular processor is in my house in Italy, so I won't be able to check its status until this Summer. Perhaps the previous owner disconnected it or I wasn't being patient enough.

[Bjorn Nilsson]

The first time I used it, I filled with water at about 21C; I expected the water to be brought up to the 24C working temperature. An 30 minutes later the processor had not not started. I assumed it didn't have a heating element. This particular processor is in my house in Italy, so I won't be able to check its status until this Summer. Perhaps the previous owner disconnected it or I wasn't being patient enough.

Yes, this is how you should use the ATL 1000/1500 (and the same goes for the CPE (2) as well I recon). If your heater for some reason doesn't work one of the major points of using a fully automated processor is gone as you have to compensate for any temperature difference every time you use the processor.
(The larger ATL processors does have a cold water inlet, which lets the tempering water cool down if it's too hot. That goes for some of the CPP2 processors too.)

//Björn

[Joanna Carter]

The first time I used it, I filled with water at about 21C; I expected the water to be brought up to the 24C working temperature. An 30 minutes later the processor had not not started. I assumed it didn't have a heating element. This particular processor is in my house in Italy, so I won't be able to check its status until this Summer. Perhaps the previous owner disconnected it or I wasn't being patient enough.
When you filled up the water bath, how close to the line on the back of the bath did you fill it? I ask this because, if you don't put enougn water in, the heating and circulating that is meant to happen is triggered by a level switch which may not be triggered until you add more water. On my ATL1500, I find that the water should be about 5mm above the line. the way to test it is to put an empty drum in place, select the E6 3 bath process and start the processor; not only should you hear the motor turning the drum, you should also hear an internal pump running. This is the pump that helps circulate the heated water in the bath. If you don't hear this second noise, try adding water, a little at a time, until the pump starts or until you get more than 1cm above the line (which could mean that something is broken)

[Renato Tonelli]

Thank you for the tip, Joanna. I will keep it in mind next time I use that processor.
(I have an ATL-1500 in the USA which I use quite often but this one has the luxury of being hooked up to an automatic water mixing valve - an Intellifaucet).

[Joanna Carter]

Thank you for the tip, Joanna. I will keep it in mind next time I use that processor.
(I have an ATL-1500 in the USA which I use quite often but this one has the luxury of being hooked up to an automatic water mixing valve - an Intellifaucet).
In theory, you shouldn't need to regard this advice, as I believe the water bath is filled from the supply and is shut off by the same sensor that starts the circulating pump. This should only be relevant to those using the low pressure inlet, who have to fill the water bath manually.

[Lannon]

In theory, you shouldn't need to regard this advice, as I believe the water bath is filled from the supply and is shut off by the same sensor that starts the circulating pump. This should only be relevant to those using the low pressure inlet, who have to fill the water bath manually.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I have just done the first test run
with the ATL1000 and it seems to run fine However the water bath didn't fill up when I started the machine. Is this because I ran it in the B/W mode? Will the ATL1000 heat the dev without the water bath or only with the water bath? Thanks again.

Cheers

Lannon

[Renato Tonelli]

Lannon - I am pretty sure it needs the water bath, regardless of the model. Jobo link:
www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_atl-1500_00.htm

[Joanna Carter]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I have just done the first test run with the ATL1000 and it seems to run fine However the water bath didn't fill up when I started the machine. Is this because I ran it in the B/W mode? Will the ATL1000 heat the dev without the water bath or only with the water bath?
Are you connecting the water supply to the high pressure inlet (washing machine connector) or to the low pressure inlet? The water bath will only fill if the high pressure inlet is used and should start filling as soon as you turn on the mains supply to the processor. You should not run the processor without a water bath.

[Lannon]

Are you connecting the water supply to the high pressure inlet (washing machine connector) or to the low pressure inlet? The water bath will only fill if the high pressure inlet is used and should start filling as soon as you turn on the mains supply to the processor. You should not run the processor without a water bath.

Hi Joanna

Yes the processor is connected to the high pressure mains. I will give it another go and see if I can get the waterbath filled.

Can anyone confirm for me that on your processor in B/W mode the water jacket automatically fills when you turn it on.

In the instruction manual I have it reads:

"When you switch the ATL-1000 on, the water jacket automatically fills with water (only for temperature-controlled processes like e-6/c-41).

However later it says:

"Switch the appliance on with the mains switch. The ATL-1000 now automatically fills the water jacket and starts bringing the solutions and the drum to the correct temperature."

Thanks again

[percepts]

I don't think anything happens till you close the lid which has a little electromagnetic connector in it. Then you switch on and it should start filling the water bath. There is then a delay until developer tank reaches temp at which point it starts processing.

[Joanna Carter]

I don't think anything happens till you close the lid which has a little electromagnetic connector in it. Then you switch on and it should start filling the water bath. There is then a delay until developer tank reaches temp at which point it starts processing.
Unfortunately, I can't use the high pressure inlet because I don't have a stable thermostatic water supply but, as far as I remember, when I first tested the machine prior to purchase, I did connect the high pressure inlet to our wachine machine outlet and it started to fill the water bath as soon as I switched on the mains. And it didn't matter that the lid wasn't closed.

The instructions certainly aren't clear but I think the best testing procedure would be :

1. Connect the high pressure inlet to a water supply (don't bother about temperature control yet) and ensure that the water supply is turned on. If nothing happens when you turn on the mains switch, close the lid and see if that makes any difference. If it still doesn't fill, then you may need to get it checked out.

2. Assuming it does fill as soon as you switch on the mains, select the E6 three bath process, fill the first three chemistry bottles with water, and start the processor. Listen for the sound of something other than the drum motor running. You should be able to hear the circulating pump as well, which is meant to run as the water is being heated.

I believe that the Jobo instructions may be trying to indicate that the heater/pump may only run for the 38° processes, but I could be wrong. Nonetheless, trying to run a 38° process should prove that they are working, at least for that temperature.

If you don't hear the pump running then, once again, you may need to call in "the man" to fix it.