Carbon transfer prints on aluminum

[sanking]

Over the past year or so I have made a number of carbon transfer prints on white aluminum sheets, usually about 40 mil thick. These prints have a highly distinctive look since the relief is right on top of the surface, which enhances dimensional qualities and gives a print surface that is richly textured.

Most of my prints are 12X17" or 12X18" in size on 18"X24" sheets. I attach an image to give some idea how the prints look.

I have an opportunity to exhibit some of this work and would appreciate advice on how to best present it. One possibility is simply to hang the work as is, with no matting or framing. Another is to place a matte over the front of the print. Another would be to place a frame around the outside of the aluminum sheet. However, whatever method I use the intention would be to use no glass in front of the print since this would greatly diminish the textured surface look that one sees without the glass.

Ideas and comments appreciated.

Sandy King

[Kirk Gittings]

Interesting. Are these white aluminum sheets painted white or powder coated white? How durable is the image itself?

[jb7]

Looks good-
I think I'd be tempted to leave out the mat,
if the surface is as you say-
Seems like a good contrast to the print-

[sanking]

Interesting. Are these white aluminum sheets painted white or powder coated white? How durable is the image itself?

Kirk,

The surface is a white acrylic paint, applied as below in the product description.

"Alliance BRITE-WHITE – Alliance BRITE-WHITE Painted Aluminum is coated utilizing a continuous roll coated process that ensures a smooth consistent color on both sides of the material.
The coating is applied in a controlled environment with rigid specifications that result in an even finish that matches batch after batch. A wide variety of colors, gloss levels and life expectancy are available to meet individual requirements. WHITER and BRIGHTER finish for your printing needs."

To print I first prep the surface with a light rub with Bon Ami, which gives it some tooth. I have had several of these prints on display in my sun room for about eight months and they look just like they did the day I made them. And to get them off the aluminum requires sanding, when dry.

Aluminum has a fairly high co-efficient of expansion so I would be concerned about storing or displaying them in areas that might experience wide changes in temperature over a short period of time.

Sandy

[Vaughn]

Hello Sandy! I tend towards the display of the sheet of Al as is -- attached tastefully to the wall with no further matting nor framing. Besides the images, the sheets of Al with the raised relief images on them are wonderful objects just on their own.

That said, since the greatest dangers to the image are 1) fingers that can't be kept off the images by their owners, and 2) temperature changes that expand and/or contract the Al -- causing the image to crack up.

The first danger might be reduced through signs (and perhaps a "sacrificial print" that people can touch). The second danger might be somewhat reduced by a frame, if the frame helps to insulate the Al from temp changes.

Definitely keep the prints out of direct sunlight, and away from heater vents, but you probably got that figured out.

Vaughn

[sanking]

Hello Sandy! I tend towards the display of the sheet of Al as is -- attached tastefully to the wall with no further matting nor framing. Besides the images, the sheets of Al with the raised relief images on them are wonderful objects just on their own

Definitely keep the prints out of direct sunlight, and away from heater vents, but you probably got that figured out.

Vaughn

Direct display seems very attractive to me as well. There is a great simplicity in the utilitarian aspect of this kind of image.

As for the sun, no problem. As I mentioned, I have had several of these on easels in my sun room where they get several hours a day of direct sun and so far this has not caused any change at all in the prints. It is changes of temperature that most concern me.

Sandy

[sanking]

Looks good-
I think I'd be tempted to leave out the mat,
if the surface is as you say-
Seems like a good contrast to the print-

The surface outside the image area is the same as the highlights of the image. It is a very shiny white surface.

Sandy

[Richard M. Coda]

"A wide variety of colors, gloss levels and life expectancy are available to meet individual requirements."

What is the life expectancy? Under un-protected circumstances?

Acrylic is a plastic, is it not? Will it yellow? Will it become brittle? Will it detach from the aluminum? I know a carbon print will last for centuries, if not more... the trick is to have a support that will last just as long.

As far as framing. I'd prefer no mat, but glass in front, maybe floated, not necessarily in a frame. Maybe fastened by steel rods to the wall (or other support), leaving a 1" space between the print the the inside of the glass... larger than the print. Keep the fingers off the print and might look cool.

[Monty McCutchen]

Sandy,

A good friend and member of this forum David Prifti has shown his wonderful wet plate work recently with great success by floating his work with a wood block behind the image that is slightly smaller than the image itself. He has floated the work inside frames as well as stand alone floats. Both look great, different but equally beautiful. Getting it off the wall though definitely added something to the presentation in my opinion.

Monty

[Kerik Kouklis]

Go rustic and just nail the f-ers right to the wall! :-)

[Bruce Watson]

I've seen nice displays of aluminum sheets by gluing some wood to the back of the sheet. Just a couple of bars attached horizontally (to floor) about 1/4 to 1/3 of the sheet width in from top/bottom, and shorter than the sheet by enough so that you don't see the bars unless you look for them.

This does two things for you. First, it spaces the sheet off the wall which helps with that feeling of depth, and it does it so the sheet is nice and stable and parallel to the wall. Second, it gives you a place to attach hanging hardware so that you can hang it without the hardware being seen, and without the sheet leaning out from the top like conventional framing tends to do. The combination is a very clean presentation -- it just floats off the wall a couple of cm without any visible means of support.

You may not want such a contemporary look, IDK. Depends on the look you are trying to accomplish. It's just one way to do it, and of course there are many paths to the waterfall.


Edit: Oy! Monty beat me to it. I'm too old and slow for sure.

[Kerik Kouklis]

OTOH, I've seen plates presented as Monty described and they look great.

[sanking]

[QUOTE=Richard M. Coda;529212]
What is the life expectancy? Under un-protected circumstances?

Acrylic is a plastic, is it not? Will it yellow? Will it become brittle? Will it detach from the aluminum? I know a carbon print will last for centuries, if not more... the trick is to have a support that will last just as long.

/QUOTE]

Yellowing is not an issue. I have left a sheet of the painted aluminum outside in direct sun for several years and the surface is as white as it was the day I put it outside.

Glass in front is not an option. You would have to see this work to understand how much glass in front detracts from the relief and dimensional qualities.

Sandy

[sanking]

Sandy,

A good friend and member of this forum David Prifti has shown his wonderful wet plate work recently with great success by floating his work with a wood block behind the image that is slightly smaller than the image itself. He has floated the work inside frames as well as stand alone floats. Both look great, different but equally beautiful. Getting it off the wall though definitely added something to the presentation in my opinion.

Monty

I would love to see what his work looks like floated inside frames. That is one of the looks I was interested in for my work.

Sandy

[Jim Edmond]

I think a floating frame would be nice, too. It would give a formal finished look, but still be able to see the uniqueness of the print. I'd love to see these.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

[QUOTE=Richard M. Coda;529212]
What is the life expectancy? Under un-protected circumstances?

Acrylic is a plastic, is it not? Will it yellow? Will it become brittle? Will it detach from the aluminum? I know a carbon print will last for centuries, if not more... the trick is to have a support that will last just as long.

/QUOTE]

Yellowing is not an issue. I have left a sheet of the painted aluminum outside in direct sun for several years and the surface is as white as it was the day I put it outside.

Glass in front is not an option. You would have to see this work to understand how much glass in front detracts from the relief and dimensional qualities.

Sandy

Sandy, I like the options that have been presented here. I like the idea of floating the aluminum off of the wall. I agree that no glass should be put over a carbon print. My feeling is that even my images on the different papers that I use that glass would detract from the proper presentation of my images. You really have to see a carbon print to understand this.

I'm for nailing fingers to the walls if need be! I mean if it says don't touch then don't!! I agree with Vaughn in that you should have a sacrificial print for the touchy feely types.

You gave me the link for the source for the aluminum sheets and I'm going to give it a try. Some of my images would benefit from it. BTW, have you found a way to keep the tissue centered when you transfer the image to the final aluminum support?

The 3-D effect of the process I know will be greatly enhanced by the splendid image you posted.

Best,

Jim

[sanking]

You gave me the link for the source for the aluminum sheets and I'm going to give it a try. Some of my images would benefit from it. BTW, have you found a way to keep the tissue centered when you transfer the image to the final aluminum support?

The 3-D effect of the process I know will be greatly enhanced by the splendid image you posted.

Would love to see some of your work. You have become one of the best advocates out there for carbon printers. Keep up the good work, both here and in your workshops.

Best,

Jim

Hi Jim,

You are correct in that one would need to see a carbon print to understand why carbon printers would not want to hide the extraordinary surface qualities of these prints behind glass.

And yes, I have found a way to center the tissue on the aluminum sheet. I will detail this in the thread I started on the carbon group on Yahoo. It is pretty simple, but works well.

Sandy King

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Hi Jim,

You are correct in that one would need to see a carbon print to understand why carbon printers would not want to hide the extraordinary surface qualities of these prints behind glass.

And yes, I have found a way to center the tissue on the aluminum sheet. I will detail this in the thread I started on the carbon group on Yahoo. It is pretty simple, but works well.

Sandy King

Awesome, Sandy thanks. I was headed there next.

Jim

[Michael Wynd]

I love your option Kerik.
Mike

[Doug Dolde]

I'd hang it without any additional mat or frame, but put cleats on the back so it floats off the wall.

[Michael Wynd]

Sandy,
I haven't forgotten about the water based polyurethane. My friend that makes it has been having some personal problems and is only just getting back up to speed. I have asked him for another largish sample so that you can try it out. I hope to be able to get it to you before the middle of next month.
Mike

[Jim Michael]

I was thinking cleats too. How flat & stiff is the metal? Aluminum is soft and .040 seems a bit thin.

[D. Bryant]

I would love to see what his work looks like floated inside frames. That is one of the looks I was interested in for my work.

Sandy

I would float them inside deep wooden frames with the interior painted black.

Don Bryant

[Toyon]

I agree with the floating idea. However, I would instill strip lighting inside the frame edge (invisible from the front) this will have the effect of showing off the relief/3D effect. Leaving the prints exposed to the air will lead to inevitable damage and heartbreak.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Glass in front is not an option. You would have to see this work to understand how much glass in front detracts from the relief and dimensional qualities...I'd strongly encourage anyone with such a glass aversion to try some Tru Vue AR:

http://www.tru-vue.com/Tru-Vue/Products/ar-reflection-free/

Its low-iron glass is clear, not green, and the coating on both sides makes reflections nil from the viewer's position. An outstanding product that keeps fingers off your work without, in my opinion, in any way hiding the relief and dimensional qualities. No matter what "poke samples" are provided or cautionary markings affixed, I believe fingers will be placed on unprotected prints.

[sanking]

I agree with the floating idea. However, I would instill strip lighting inside the frame edge (invisible from the front) this will have the effect of showing off the relief/3D effect. Leaving the prints exposed to the air will lead to inevitable damage and heartbreak.

A carbon print is comprised of inert pigment(s) encapsulated in a layer of hardened gelatin. Such prints are much more like tempera paintings, which are made with a colored pigment mixed with a water-soluble binder, than with photographic prints as most people understand then. Tempera paintings are very long lasting and typically are not exhibited behind glass. In fact, most paintings are not exhibited behind glass.

Like tempera painting, the major danger to a carbon print is surface cracking or separation from its support from unequal expansion and contraction of the two surfaces. You can often see surface cracking (crazing) in the thick layers of the shadows in vintage carbon prints.

For the record I am very confident that my carbon transfer work on rag photo papers has more permanence than the work on aluminum in terms of long term adhesion of the image to the support. The coefficient of expansion of aluminum is quite high and subjecting a carbon print on aluminum to extreme changes in temperature would likely damage the print.

Sandy King

[paulr]

All the suggestions sound like they'd look great. I don't think I could add anything without seeing the work in person ... which I'd love to do. Sounds really nice.

Aluminum was all the rage a couple of years ago, but only as a mounting material. The plate was never part of the image. I like the sound of your approach more. You still get the great benefit that those guys got ... the sense of solidity.

[sanking]

All the suggestions sound like they'd look great. I don't think I could add anything without seeing the work in person ... which I'd love to do. Sounds really nice.

Aluminum was all the rage a couple of years ago, but only as a mounting material. The plate was never part of the image. I like the sound of your approach more. You still get the great benefit that those guys got ... the sense of solidity.

I am also developing carbon transfer prints directly on surfaces similar to some of the metal faced mounting materials. I use a material called e-panel (similar to Diabond), which is 3mm thick with a plastic core with a thin white aluminum surface laminated to the core. This material costs more per sheet than plain 40 mil aluminum but has much greater dimensional stability.

Sandy King