PDA

View Full Version : 4x5 daylight developing tanks



ignatiusjk
16-Nov-2009, 17:13
Does anyone know of a good 4x5 developing daylight tank. I don't have a darkroom and I'm tired of a lab proccessing my B&W 4x5's. Let me know, thanks.

Mark Stahlke
16-Nov-2009, 18:09
I just started doing my own 4x5 B&W processing. I bought a Combi-Plan. I find it works well for film processing in the kitchen. Read the instructions carefully and follow them. I was surprised by how easy it is.

You could also do tray development in a darkened bathroom.

Cheers,
Mark

ignatiusjk
16-Nov-2009, 18:10
Who is "combo plan " made by? What model number?

Ari
16-Nov-2009, 18:15
Jobos are expensive, but they are among the best. There are several models which can process 6 or 12 4x5 sheets at a time, in daylight of course.

Mark Stahlke
16-Nov-2009, 18:16
The Combi-Plan (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/23845-REG/HP_Combi_Plan_459809_HP_Combi_4_x.html) is from HP Marketing.

Cheers,
Mark

Bob Salomon
16-Nov-2009, 18:41
We only make one Combi-Plan tank system.

theBDT
16-Nov-2009, 18:45
According to the reviews on BH, the Combi-Plan is leaky and (more troubling) very slow to fill/drain...

dagabel
16-Nov-2009, 18:50
I just use a stainless steel Kinderman tank designed for two 120 reels and wrap my sheets in tubing made out of window screen material (a modified "Taco" method). I can process four sheets at a time this way.

bobwysiwyg
16-Nov-2009, 18:53
According to the reviews on BH, the Combi-Plan is leaky and (more troubling) very slow to fill/drain...

That was my original take as well. However, I was given some tips that pretty much negate most, if not all, of these. The leaking is taken care of by making sure the lid is really pressed on tight after loading. I use a rubber band to hold the two orange guides on the slots while loading. As for filling/emptying, make sure the openings are on the same side and do the filling and emptying via the bottom opening. Works well. It's my current and only 4x5 development tank at the moment.

ki6mf
16-Nov-2009, 19:04
i have 4 Combi tanks and have tried Jobo and the Yankee Daylight tanks. I like the fast load of the Combi. They do not pour as fast as roll film tanks which is what many roll film users would like. This is where the criticism comes from. I have not had any problem with the slightly longer pour times and if has not affected my negatives. Other comments are correct in terms of leakage. Everything must be tight to prevent leaks. The Yankee tanks are not an inversion tank and can easily loose liquid with over agitation.

Mark Stahlke
16-Nov-2009, 19:24
As for filling/emptying, make sure the openings are on the same side and do the filling and emptying via the bottom opening.
Interesting. Does it fill and drain faster that way?

I do the filling/draining from the top. It takes about 30 seconds or so to fill or drain from the top so I reduced my development time by 30 seconds. I haven't seen any problems.

The only leakage I've had was the time I neglected to close the air vent before agitating. Oops.

Cheers,
Mark

Bob Salomon
16-Nov-2009, 19:27
That was my original take as well. However, I was given some tips that pretty much negate most, if not all, of these. The leaking is taken care of by making sure the lid is really pressed on tight after loading. I use a rubber band to hold the two orange guides on the slots while loading. As for filling/emptying, make sure the openings are on the same side and do the filling and emptying via the bottom opening. Works well. It's my current and only 4x5 development tank at the moment.

This is a bit confusing.
The holding clip for the film carrier has a ratchet and holds perfectly tight and will not slip or loosen, unless you have broken the springs on the clip by not slightly depressing them when taking the clip off the film carrier.

For filling the Light-Tight Hose Connector has an air vent built into it. To fill or empty and the correct speed you must loosen the Hose connector a half turn. This opens the air path. Just be sure to retighten it when finished filling the tank.

The Combi-Plan can process sheet film or glass plates. If doing glass plates you must assemble the film carrier with the straight grooves facing each other on the sides of the Film Carrier. If doing sheet film the curved sides must face each other.

The Combi-Plan is designed to be filled from the top and the body has a lip around the top that directs the chemistry down the side of the tank. THE COMBI-PLAN SHOULD NOT BE FILLED FROM THE BOTTOM DRAIN. THE BOTTOM CONNECTOR IS TO FORCE WASH THE FILM WITH A HOSE!

These directions are part of the instructions that are included with the Combi-Plan system. If you do not have the instructions I can email them to you. To get them send an email to bob@hpmarketingcorp.com.
I WILL NOT SEND THEM THROUGH THE FORUM!

theBDT
16-Nov-2009, 23:19
For filling the Light-Tight Hose Connector has an air vent built into it. To fill or empty and the correct speed you must loosen the Hose connector a half turn. This opens the air path. Just be sure to retighten it when finished filling the tank.

Does opening the air vent allow for reasonable filling times then (i.e. under 20 seconds)? This has been the biggest issue for me vis-a-vis considering buying this tank...

Chris Jones
17-Nov-2009, 01:00
I use a HP Combi Plan tank and like it very, very much. It allows control over a wide range of agitation times unlike rotary drums. I was concerned about negative comments prior to purchase but as it transpires these were not correct and probably based on inexperience.

The 30 second fill time is not a problem since it also takes 30 seconds to empty. It really excels for very dilute developers such as Rodinal 1+100 I use for Efke 25 and also shorter times with 1+1 and 1+3 ID11/D76 for 100ASA sheets. It uses a litre of chemical which matches my Patterson System Four tank used for 120 roll film so this simplifies things for me.

Best, Chris Jones.

Paul H
17-Nov-2009, 01:45
If you can find one (ebay UK often has the most), a Paterson Orbital is a good bet. It is basically a daylight tray, in which you can process up to four 4x5", two 5x7" or one 8x10" at a time. Dead easy to load, easy to fill and empty. It uses minimal solution - 80-150mm, depending on the developer as much as anything.

Pete Watkins
17-Nov-2009, 02:19
I'm with Paul.
You won't find better than a Patterson Orbital tank.They were originally designed for paper but with a few modifications they are brilliant for sheet film. Others won't agree with me but I use 300ml of solution. Combi Plans make good washers for 4x5 film, I never got on with mine for anything else.
Best wishes,
Pete.

bobwysiwyg
17-Nov-2009, 05:23
This is a bit confusing.
The holding clip for the film carrier has a ratchet and holds perfectly tight and will not slip or loosen, unless you have broken the springs on the clip by not slightly depressing them when taking the clip off the film carrier.

For filling the Light-Tight Hose Connector has an air vent built into it. To fill or empty and the correct speed you must loosen the Hose connector a half turn. This opens the air path. Just be sure to retighten it when finished filling the tank.

The Combi-Plan can process sheet film or glass plates. If doing glass plates you must assemble the film carrier with the straight grooves facing each other on the sides of the Film Carrier. If doing sheet film the curved sides must face each other.

The Combi-Plan is designed to be filled from the top and the body has a lip around the top that directs the chemistry down the side of the tank. THE COMBI-PLAN SHOULD NOT BE FILLED FROM THE BOTTOM DRAIN. THE BOTTOM CONNECTOR IS TO FORCE WASH THE FILM WITH A HOSE!

These directions are part of the instructions that are included with the Combi-Plan system. If you do not have the instructions I can email them to you. To get them send an email to bob@hpmarketingcorp.com.
I WILL NOT SEND THEM THROUGH THE FORUM!

Actually, I wasn't referring to the retaining clip used to hold the film in the slots while processing, but rather the orange guides you slip over the slots to aid in loading. Ordinarily, they just rest there and fall off easily. I just use a rubber band to hold them in place temp. while loading.

As for the filling and emptying from the bottom outlet, not sure what the issue is, but I have no problems with this method and it seems to fill much faster, particularly if you don't let the bowl of the funnel fill which means controlling the fill rate a bit.

redrockcoulee
17-Nov-2009, 06:00
I have two Combi-Plan tanks. Occassionally I do get a bit of leakage but as it does not seem to be any particular one I believe it is from not having the top on as tight as it should be and rectify it outside the darkroom. There is less leakage than from my older Patterson roll film tanks. Loading Technical pan has been a pain but that is due to the thinest of the film and have no problem with TMAXs or other regular films. They are inexpensive on eBay and affordable new. I started using them before I set up my current darkroom and the darkroom does not have running water so develop films in another room so need daylight tanks. Combi-Plan tanks are far from perfect but not any wheres as bad as some make them to be. They do the job.

Bob Salomon
17-Nov-2009, 06:15
Actually, I wasn't referring to the retaining clip used to hold the film in the slots while processing, but rather the orange guides you slip over the slots to aid in loading. Ordinarily, they just rest there and fall off easily. I just use a rubber band to hold them in place temp. while loading.

As for the filling and emptying from the bottom outlet, not sure what the issue is, but I have no problems with this method and it seems to fill much faster, particularly if you don't let the bowl of the funnel fill which means controlling the fill rate a bit.

The film guide locks onto the film holder when properly installed and will support the weight of the loaded film holder by itself. There should be no need for rubber bands.

bobwysiwyg
17-Nov-2009, 07:16
The film guide locks onto the film holder when properly installed and will support the weight of the loaded film holder by itself. There should be no need for rubber bands.

Well, I saw how that is 'supposed' to work, but the reality is, at least with mine, it doesn't. No problems, my work around works. ;)

Sean Galbraith
17-Nov-2009, 07:37
I have a Jobo that is designed for 2 35mm rolls. I use the taco method and can develop 4 sheets of 4x5 at a time. (I just learned how to develop 2 days ago and love it)

jp
17-Nov-2009, 13:24
I have the hp combiplan. I don't use the film guides. My fingers can feel where the film is supposed to go in the dark.

It leaks a little sometime, and I wish it drained/filled quicker. But it works fine. I bought a second one so I could process more at once. It's no messier than using a paterson system like 35mm/120.

bvstaples
17-Nov-2009, 13:42
I use a Paterson Orbital on a motor base and get perfect negs 99% of the time.

I've done some modifications to it to make it "better." I used a silicone sealant to put little tiny dots on the bottom of the tray. There are three in each quadrant, so a total of 12 all together. This keeps the film off the tray bottom and allows for flow of chemicals all around.

I also removed the two long spines on the light trap. This is the device that fits in the hole in the lid. I found the sheets could rub against these spines and create small blemishes in the emulsion. Removing the spines has eliminated this defect.

The one drawback to the Paterson Orbital is it's availability...they're near impossible to find in the states. And if you do get a motor base (not a necessity), you'll have to get a converter for it, as it's 220V.

And I'm with Pete, I use about 250-300mm of chemistry, which is still a piddly amount, as far as I'm concerned.


Brian

bobwysiwyg
17-Nov-2009, 14:22
I have the hp combiplan. I don't use the film guides. My fingers can feel where the film is supposed to go in the dark.

It leaks a little sometime, and I wish it drained/filled quicker. But it works fine. I bought a second one so I could process more at once. It's no messier than using a paterson system like 35mm/120.

I tried without the guides a few times. I guess I didn't have the knack as I would usually get one side edge into an adjacent slot. :o

Chuck P.
17-Nov-2009, 17:18
According to the reviews on BH, the Combi-Plan is leaky and (more troubling) very slow to fill/drain...

I really like the Combi-Plan tanks-------you may find some plastic on the top edge of the tank that was left behind when removed from the mold used to make it. I fixed my combi-plan leak problems by trimming that plastic off, apparently it can get in the way of the lid making a good seal. I still have one that leaks just a bit, but no problem really.

I don't use the fill and drain feature of the tank when developing. I have four tanks. After loading a tank with the film and after a two minute pre-wash then drain:

-set the Gralab timer for the dev time plus 20 sec
-go lights out
-remove the lid from the tank with the film, then remove the film from the wash tank
-place film in the developer tank-----start the timer
-lift the film in and out of the tank for the first 20 sec to dislodge any bubbles and to let the developer completely displace any remaining wash water
-put on the dev tank lid (I have this down to a gentle process that only takes a few seconds)
-turn lights on
-continue development in the room light
-with one minute left in dev, turn out the lights
-after the last agitation cycle, remove the lid
-pull the film from the dev tank when the timer goes off
-immediately place the film in the stop bath, finish the stop bath in the dark
-put the film in the fixer tank, then install the fixer lid
-finish the process in the room light

It may seem complicated, but it's really a smooth as glass process for me--I do this because I simply dispise like the 30 sec fill/drain time, but I love the tanks in all other respects, especially as film washers.

jp
17-Nov-2009, 19:48
I tried without the guides a few times. I guess I didn't have the knack as I would usually get one side edge into an adjacent slot. :o

Here's the trick. Just "walk" you fingers up the slots to get to the highest slot while holding the film. Drop it in. walk your fingers up the slots again to count to make sure the film in in the third slot. repeat for second slot. feel for first slot and repeat. Then just run your fingers over the three sheets on the edges to verify they are spaced.

Rotate assembly 180, fill the other side in the same manner.

bobwysiwyg
18-Nov-2009, 03:30
JP,

Thanks. I will give this a try.

Jacques-Mtl
18-Nov-2009, 08:15
I've been using the Combi-Plan tanks for a couple of years with great success. Like Chuck I don't use the fill and drain feature of the tank when developing. I fill the tank with the developer, turn off the lights, insert the films into the rack, insert the rack into the tank, close it and start developing with the lights on. Then I use another tank for the stop with lights off, empty the developer tank and fill it with fix and then wash the film. I really enjoy that tank.
Jacques

r_a_feldman
18-Nov-2009, 11:48
I have a Yankee tank, but would not recommend it. You cannot invert it and the chemicals can be sloshed out. It also takes a while to fill and drain, but this has not had a noticable effect on my negatives.

For me, the biggest problem is that it is wasteful of chemicals -- you need 60 ounces (IIRC), whether you are developing one sheet of film or a dozen sheets.

Does anyone use the BTZS tubes? Comments on how they work would be appreciated.

David Schaller
22-Nov-2009, 09:28
I use the Jobo 2509 tank, reel and loader as a daylight inversion tank for 4x5. Works great. It does use 1500 ml of chemistry, but I use either dilute D76 or Pyrocat HD.
Dave

ronald moravec
23-Nov-2009, 19:00
A 4x5 Nikkor tanks hold 12 sheets, uses 36 oz of solution.

Fill tank with developer and drop in the liquid in the dark like any Nikkor tank is best used. Grab the reel, pull out, rotate, reimmerse. 4 immersions in 30 sec is the initial agitation.

For a single sheet, a 5x7 tray works fine. I do not interleave. I have kept up to 4 trays going at once each with a single sheet.

Jobo expert Drum is the best for ease of learning.

Hangars with a hangar rack ties with the Nikkor for second place.