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Discoman
14-Nov-2009, 16:30
I found this auction of Sinar stuff, expolux, bellows, accumulator, charger, sinarsix digital, module 2, etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180429537664&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

does this stuff look to be in good condition? is it worth trying to win this?:confused:
thanks.

Bjorn Nilsson
14-Nov-2009, 17:16
These old Sinar digital shutters are not very popular, due to their hagh failure rate. They often found their way to Switzerland and back several times due to being very sensitive to static electricity. (I must admit that I used to own one of these outfits in the late 80'ies and it didn't brake down even once for me. But I recon I was one of the few lucky ones.) Unless you shoot a lot in the studio, which is the only place where it's sensible to use this outfit, let it go to someone else.
If you decide to bid on it, I'd say some $250 or so, because you will have no guarantee and the repair bills can be much higher than so. I.e. it's better to buy something for little money so that you can dump it if it breaks instead of "having to repair" it to protect some sort of investment.
Well, at least this is my opinion.

//Björn

Lachlan 717
14-Nov-2009, 17:29
Do you have a specific need for this gear? Or is this just on a whim?

Mark Woods
14-Nov-2009, 18:57
I would think the lens alone is worth $250. If the bellows is in good condition, that's at least $50-100. My $.02 for a thought. I like my Sinar stuff. I have to admit, I have a digital shutter and have never used it. I use the mechanical one, or the one on the lens.

rdenney
14-Nov-2009, 19:44
I would think the lens alone is worth $250. If the bellows is in good condition, that's at least $50-100. My $.02 for a thought. I like my Sinar stuff. I have to admit, I have a digital shutter and have never used it. I use the mechanical one, or the one on the lens.

Note that the lens is an old Symmar Convertible.

And also note that it is in a DB mount, meaning it has no shutter, only an aperture. It depends on the Expolux shutter. So, retasking the lens if the shutter turns out to be flaky will require finding a replacement shutter.

There is risk in this sort of kit without buying with the ability to test and return.

I'd rather spend the money for a Sinar Copal shutter if I wanted to shoot barrel lenses. It's all mechanical.

I'm thinking this one needs the sort of specialized buyer who doesn't need to ask on a public forum whether it looks like it will work.

Rick "caveat emptor" Denney

Frank Petronio
14-Nov-2009, 22:53
It looks like more trouble than it's worth, it is more something that someone might want for parts than to actually use whole. If it was from a domestic seller with some photo background and who could assure its functionality then it wouldn't be such a scary deal.

Discoman
15-Nov-2009, 00:22
to be honest, the only issue I have is that the seller will not respond to any messages, yet has 100% positive feedback.

the only reason I am asking is to get a more experienced opinion on the matter-I haven't used this setup before, only a basic front shutter model that I used once. I heard good things about the expolux module system and the expolux monitor system, and I know what they do/how to use them, but I don'y know how to identify their condition.

Lee Christopher
15-Nov-2009, 10:43
For me, the refusal to communicate is an immediate show stopper.

Unless the deal is too good to walk away from, the seller has been trading for a long time and has a minimum 99% positive rating, and the price remains low.

rdenney
16-Nov-2009, 09:56
but I don'y know how to identify their condition.

As with any electronic device, I don't know how you will assess condition from pictures that show the device powered down.

Rick "who'd rather have the mechanically-controlled Copal shutter" Denney

Dave Dawson
16-Nov-2009, 13:13
I have two Copal mechanical Sinar shuuters that work fine and one elctronic that doesn't !!!!

When they work they are great.....When they don't they are a 'bin job'

Cheers Dave

Dave Dawson
16-Nov-2009, 14:16
By the way...That is NOT an Expolux shutter but the earlier electronic.

Cheers Dave

Discoman
16-Nov-2009, 19:10
yes my mistake, I just found that out myself when I was going through the repair guide.
whoops that's the Digital shutter, not the expolux.
how do the two shutters compare, along with the mechanical one?

Sevo
17-Nov-2009, 02:44
The Expolux ha improved handling, with comprehensible feedback throughout - the original sinar Digital was rather cumbersome, with an early eighties "press this button once, press that button twice and watch whether dot four on the segment blinks" interface - if you expand it with probe and meter, the thing becomes so cryptic that it is almost unusable except for strictly routine studio tasks. But even the Expolux can't be used without a user manual at hand.

Both are rather vulnerable - don't expect to be able to use them in hot, cold or damp conditions. And if a Digital dies, you may need a second one for spares - sinar (and the electronics industry) has long run out of many critical components.

The mechanical shutters are hard to kill and easy to use - stick with them. The Digital shutter was designed for high-volume studio production, and is a pain to use for anything else.

Sevo

Dave Dawson
17-Nov-2009, 08:53
yes my mistake, I just found that out myself when I was going through the repair guide.
whoops that's the Digital shutter, not the expolux.
how do the two shutters compare, along with the mechanical one?

The mechanical ones go on for years and years....The electronic ones don't:D

Cheers Dave

Bjorn Nilsson
17-Nov-2009, 12:41
...
how do the two shutters compare, along with the mechanical one?

As Sevo says, the digital shutter is somewhat like a videorecorder from the 70-ies, i.e. quite difficult to understand unless you work with it all the time. I did get the hang of mine, but by then I knew the 100 page manual by heart. I used it on a Sinar P2 in a studio, with the dedicated meter etc. Just doing a straight shot was quite easy, but e.g. a mixed light source shot (flash and ambient light) was supposed to be easy, but it still was almost as difficult as figuring it all out manually.
While I don't have any experience with the Expolux shutter, from what I've seen it's definitely easier to work with, with a better interface. The electronics was also of a newer generation and from what I've heard, much more stable.
The general consensus about both these system seems to be that they didn't revoluionize the business. I.e. the basic idea may have been good, but these gadgets didn't ever get popular in the studios.

On the other hand are the all mechanical Copal shutters which have been around since the 50'ies and its different "incarnations" can be found almost anywhere. It's rugged and reliable and hardly ever wears out, i.e. a very good shutter well worth the investment. If you buy a used one, you should of course avoid the heavily used ones, even though they are built to last. What is really important is to buy one with a release cable included, as ordinary release cables doesn't work and finding an extra one is very expensive ($50 upwards). See to that the flash sync cable is included too, as they arn't cheap either.
(Some of these shutters saw very heavy use, making litterary thousands of exposures every day for years and years.)

//Björn

Discoman
17-Nov-2009, 21:41
okay, thanks. I'll be keeping an eye out for one then