Berlebach and heavy monorail camera

[jvuokko]

Hi,

I am choosing between berlebach's models 3002 (or 3012) and 3032 for toyo view camera.
Both has pros and cons...

3002 does not have any kind of head so I need to use one of my exist heads, preferrably 3D head - assuming that my Manfrotto 029 (Bogen 3039) 3D head is sturdy enough.

3002: pros: a bit shorter, 87cm vs 3032's 90cm. No practical difference
3002: cons: Need additional head. So more weight and 15cm more lenght, making longer than 3032

3032: pros: It has builtin 'ball head' whit 30 degree tilt to any direction.
3032: cons: is the builtin 'ball head' enough for normal photography?

The last question is actually the biggest point of whole post and it keeps me still wondering which model to choose.

Normally maximum height that I use (measured just below camera's monorail) is 140-145cm, so 3002 (or it's more expensive 3012 model) is more than enough as it requires additional head anyway.

But if 3032's builtin ballhead (http://www.berlebach.de/?bereich=details&id=289&sprache=english) is good enough for normal use, then it would be obvious choice.
Actually the idea of using monorail camera with a ball head sounds a bit scary to me.

[erie patsellis]

Do you really need a head? I've looked at the 3002 myself, and after thinking long and hard, realized I don't need a tripod head at all, 95% of what I shoot can be done easily without a head at all.

[jvuokko]

I think that head is not necessary - if the tripod's ballhead is good enough so that it can be tighten a bit and still do some camera movements smoothly.

[uhner]

A friend of mine has a Report 3032 that has served him well for several years. There is however one problem with the ballhead on his tripod – it tends to move slightly when you lock it.

I have no idea if this is a generic problem, but you might be better of with a different model. I’m quite happy with my 3002.

[Mick Fagan]

Jukka, I have the 3042 which I purchased secondhand from a member of this forum.

Whilst it is a slightly different top of the tripod arrangement from the 3032 you are contemplating, it is effectively the same from a ball head type of arrangement.

I looked at a 3032 which I saw locally, reasonably well used and very rigid, but it wasn't going to elevate the camera enough for me.

I opted to get the 3042 which has as a main difference, as far as I can see online and from memory from the real thing, a centre column.

In fact the 3042 has the option of interchangeable centre columns, which is something I didn't really understand, until I received my tripod in the mail. The standard centre column is 50cm, compact, unobtrusive, and, in my opinion brilliant. I have an optional centre column, which is the short one is 10cm long, this is the one I leave on the camera for most work. Changing them takes about 2 minutes tops.

Now to answer your real question, the inbuilt 30º ball joint. Yes it virtually eliminates the requirement for a head. In fact since receiving the tripod I haven't used anything except the standard set-up which is straight from the factory.

Effectively, if your tripod is perfectly level, you can tilt the camera 15º in any one direction. The 30º figure is arrived at by allowing you to tilt backwards 15º and forwards 15º for a total of 30º.

In practice I found I have absolutely no need for anything else. Only once did I require more angle, that was using a 90mm lens on a Shen Hao 4x5 with really close to the camera, rocks. I simply shortened one leg, then composed etcetera.

I have used my tripod with the Shen Hao fitted with a 400 telephoto combination, which is about as heavy as it gets with this type of camera. The tripod ate this for breakfast, so to speak.

I also have an extremely heavy 4x5 calumet mono rail, the ball head arrangement takes this with relative ease. The tripod ate this like a Christmas dinner.

Mick.

[jvuokko]

Thanks, I am now looking for 3032 as primary but if I don't found any with reasonable price, then 3012 and use some simple and sturdy head with it.
I think that my 3d-head (manfrotto 029/bogen 3039) isn't par with this tripod

[Shawn Dougherty]

I used a 3032 with a Calumet CC401 mono rail (actually the long rail version, whatever that is...) for several years. I have also used it with my Toyo 45AII for several months until recently, when I picked up a Ries J model. I found it rigid enough for those set ups and simply used camera movements to fine tune compositions. Not ideal but certainly doable.


The big downside to using the 3032 with the view camera for me is the lack of panning... (at least separately controlled panning) I would sometimes loosen the camera on the tripod and pan the camera but that can be a bit tedious. This was a deal breaker for me. I now use the 3032 for my Rolleiflex T and love it with that camera. Good luck!

[Michael Graves]

I have a couple of Berlebachs. One of them is the 3032 and I use it regularly with a Toyo 5x7 monorail and a Toyo 810M. It is very stable. Earlier I posted a similar question about what ball head to get that I could use. I haven't gotten it yet, but I told my wife to get me the one that Really Big Cameras is selling. If she doesn't, I'm going to. Right now, I'm using a Gitzo R3 head and I could easily fit a much larger camera on with full rigidity. The other one is somewhat smaller. I used to think it was a 2024. It doesn't have any numbers printed on it, but the gentleman who sold it to me identified it as such. Then one day I was with a group of large format photographers and one of the others had a clearly labeled 2024 that was noticeably smaller than mine. It works quite well with the 5x7, and marginally so with the 8x10.

[Dan Fromm]

Jukka, a slightly dissenting view. I have a Berlebach 8023 with a Bogen 3047/Manfrotto 029 and a Manfrotto 188(?) ball leveler. I've always preferred 3-axis heads to ball heads, I find it easier to have the three axes independently adjustable.

I recently put together a 2x3 "Baby Bertha" that incorporates a 2x3 Graflex RB Series B, three 2x3 Cambo SC standards, and a 54 cm Cambo rail. With a 3 pound 610/9 Apo Nikkor, it weighs "a lot." The 3047 flexes and is stiff in pan. I haven't done it yet, but I think I'll replace it with a 3039/229. I think you made a typo when you said 3047/229, you must have meant 3047/029. Until proven otherwise, i.e., try it out before spending more money, your 3047 should be just fine with your Toyo.

FWIW, with the 8023 set at the red (wider) angle and just the intermediate leg section extended fully, the RB's hood is at the right height for me and the tripod is stable. I would not extend the lower (single thin piece) leg section with the Baby Bertha on the tripod. But I use the 8023 at the white (narrow) angle with the legs fully extended with my 2x3 tandem Graphic, which weighs around 10 - 11 pounds. If I had your concerns, though, I'd get a Berlebach with 2, not with 3, section legs.

Cheers,

Dan

[jvuokko]

I think you made a typo when you said 3047/229, you must have meant 3047/029. Until proven otherwise, i.e., try it out before spending more money, your 3047 should be just fine with your Toyo.


Thanks Dan.

Yes, its 3047/029 which I have.

I have to really check if it's sturdy enough. So I'm most probably going for Berlebach 3002 or 3012 + bogen 3047/manfrotto 029 or some other head.

Ofcourse Berlebach 3032 + head would be also option. Perhaps not a bad solution after all? I guess that the levelling plate is good enough to hold head + monorail camera.

[Dan Fromm]

Oh, and by the way, I find my ball leveler, which has an integral bubble level, invaluable. I got it when I was shooting movies, wouldn't shoot still without it.