Fairly small 210 / 240mm with good image circle for 10x8

[Former Member 8144]

Hi guys,

Having decided on shooting my two new projects with a 10x8 camera, I am looking at getting one lens in the 210 to 240mm region.
It needs to have enough of an image circle to cover architectural style movements.
And be fairly light and small as it is used on location. I say fairly as of course to get a big enough image circle will mean larger but still.

From research here, so far I have found

210 F9 computar
210mm fuji W

schneider 240mm g-claron
germinar W 240mm
kodak WFA 250mm (possibly longer than I want but...)

Any others I should be looking for?

Thanks.

Marc

[jbenedict]

A 210 Angulon is pretty small and covers 8x10. Note *not* Super Angulon 210. (There's a beast!) Don't see 'em too often, though...

[Dominique Cesari]

I'm very pleased with a G-Claron 240 mm. Lightweight and some room. You could add the Fujinon 240 A to your list.

[Former Member 8144]

I've read that the fuji 240 won't give any good movements 10x8?

[Jan Pedersen]

The 210Fuji W with 352mm IC is not going to give you enough movements for architectural shots.
The only other small 200 - 210mm with a large IC is the rare Hugo Meyer 20cm f9 Aristostigmat and perhaps a Cooke series Viib but i have never seen one of those for sale.

[Gem Singer]

Look for a Fujinon f6.7 250W.

Mounted in a Copal 1 shutter. About the same size and weight as a 210W.

It might be single coated (some are multi-coated).

However it has a huge image circle and easily covers 8X10 with substantial movements.

No longer being manufactured, but occasionally one will show up for sale on this forum.

[Oren Grad]

kodak WFA 250mm (possibly longer than I want but...)

The 250 Wide Field Ektar generally comes in an Ilex #5. It's a big, heavy lens in a very big shutter - not what you're looking for.

[Sal Santamaura]

Look for a Fujinon f6.7 250W...It might be single coated (some are multi-coated)...None were ever multi-coated. Both the original production period and subsequent encore run were single coated. It was brought back for a time as a result of complaints about the smaller image circle of the f/6.3 multicoated version.

[Gem Singer]

Thank's for clarifying that Sal. I was going by a statement of a member of this forum who insisted that his f6.7 250W was multi-coated. He was very positive about it.

The Fuji index chart did mention that multi-coated versions of this lens could have been a mis-print in the Fuji literature.

BTW, do you agree that the Fuji f6.7 250W would be a good choice as a small size lens that can be utilized for 8X10?

[Former Member 8144]

Thanks so far guys.
I should clarify when I say some architectural movements..these projects will not involve interior shoots in tall churches, etc but will involve various buildings within the landscape so some rise/fall/shift will be necessary...but not huge amounts.

[Sal Santamaura]

...BTW, do you agree that the Fuji f6.7 250W would be a good choice as a small size lens that can be utilized for 8X10?That's what I use mine for -- and it's a very good choice! :)

[Sal Santamaura]

...I should clarify when I say some architectural movements..these projects will not involve interior shoots in tall churches, etc but will involve various buildings within the landscape so some rise/fall/shift will be necessary...but not huge amounts.Once you start shooting buildings on 8x10 with "some rise/fall/shift," you'll be very happy to have the 250mm f/6.7 Fujinon's 398mm image circle. Tall churches would likely drive you to much larger, heavier, Copal 3-shuttered alternatives.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks so far guys.
I should clarify when I say some architectural movements..these projects will not involve interior shoots in tall churches, etc but will involve various buildings within the landscape so some rise/fall/shift will be necessary...but not huge amounts.

The paradox is that the wider the lens, the smaller the coverage you get for a given optical design, but the more you need it, especially on a squarish format like 8x10.

FWIW, for general scenic snapshooting, I found the extra coverage offered by the 240 Apo-Sironar-S (75 degrees, 372mm IC) compared to the Apo-Sironar-N (72 degrees, 350mm IC) to be enough to make a real difference. Those are both big lenses in Copal 3, so not necessarily what you want. But as you evaluate other options that fit your size requirements, do think carefully about cutting it very close on the coverage.

[Former Member 8144]

it's going to be the one lens I have on this camera...so I don't need it to be ultra light...just not a monster!
The more IC the better of course but not at any cost in terms of size/weight...on occasions this won't be taken too far from the car but on other times...will be walked up & down mountains and walked over an hour or two in slushy snow and the like...it's feeling heavy already!

Marc

[eddie]

maybe too dark but the 180mm f18 protar V covers 11x14 with movements and is the size of a half dollar.

here is a picture of one. all the way on the left.

[Drew Wiley]

I'm the guy who claimed to have a MC 250/6.7. And yes it was, no doubt about it
whatsoever. Can't recall where I got it, except that it was new and had lettering on
the outside of the barrel. The coverage of this lens, the 240A, and the 250 G-claron are all similar, with only minor differences in the real world. Limited architectural usage - typically about 2 inches of rise on 8x10 the way I use them. But you might squeeze out a little more if you don't use tilt or swing much. The G-Claron probably has a tad more movement than the 240A due to the larger #shutter (versus #0 in the A); but the A has somewhat higher contrast due to MC. All of these are superb if you
don't need extreme movements on 8x10.

[Sal Santamaura]

I'm the guy who claimed to have a MC 250/6.7. And yes it was, no doubt about it whatsoever. Can't recall where I got it, except that it was new and had lettering on the outside of the barrel. The coverage of this lens, the 240A, and the 250 G-claron are all similar, with only minor differences in the real world...I've no doubt that you had a multi-coated 250mm Fujinon with coverage similar to that of a 240mm Fujinon A. I also have almost no doubt that it was the f/6.3 version. Fuji's changing from single- to multi-coating on the f/6.7 version would have had absolutely zero effect on coverage.

[Drew Wiley]

No Sal, it was absolutely positively a 6.7 lens. I had the choice of both and chose the 6.7 for the larger image circle. Don't expect me to figure this out. The lens was
unfortunately one of the few things I never recovered after a burglary (the junkie
was caught and convicted). But I do have a lot of chromes made with this lens. I
was replacing a multi-coated Schneider 210 plastmat and going to this 250 with a
conspicuously bigger image circle, but at that time using it mostly on 4x5. What so
surprised me, besides a bit of extra sharpness, was a noticeable increase in contrast - enough in fact that I had trouble printing some of the chromes and had to change
my masking procedure. Same kind of procedural change as when I shift from the
250 G-Claron to the 240 Fuji A with its higher contrast. You wouldn't expect this result from a single-coated lens, unless there was some really remarkable glass!
But I also remember the variously colored reflections in the lens, typical of multi-
coating. After the lens was lost I deliberately went looking for another 6.7 because
I knew the difference between it and the 6.3! But I opted for the A-series instead,
plus the G-Claron. But the fact is, if I was looking for the lens today I think I would prefer a single-coated one, at least for chromes. I sold a multicoated Kern Dagor and went to the single-coated equivalent for the same reason - the contrast was unmanagable.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I do still have the box for the lens! It is labeled Fujinon W 250/6.7 no.280190.
But the brochure packed inside only mentions the 6.3 version, which implies that the
6.7 was already being phased out - as I suspected, a time of overlapping inventory.
And nothing in the enclosed literature mentions anything about coatings at all. It must be fairly late, because only 180 and 240 'A' lenses are listed. At the time I was using this lens mostly as a "normal" on my Sinar 4x5, but do have a few 8x10 architectural negatives taken with it where a fair amount of rise was used. Like I mentioned above, for color use it certainly behaved like a MC rather than
single-coated lens. So I guess we have a mystery on our hands!

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I didn't think I was hallucinating. The 1980 D.O. price list for Fujinon lenses
specifically lists the 250/6.7 available in two different manners, in two different
columns, the higher priced version being EBC multicoated.

[Sal Santamaura]

Well, I didn't think I was hallucinating. The 1980 D.O. price list for Fujinon lenses
specifically lists the 250/6.7 available in two different manners, in two different
columns, the higher priced version being EBC multicoated.Fuji data are notoriously error-ridden. Here's a post I made in another thread a few days ago:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=522289&postcount=14

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, I've noticed the same problem with the literature, Sal. Very confusing. Just wish
my lens itself were still around. But I've also seen gaps in specifications altogether.
Just look at how many subtle flavors there have been of the 125 W! Anyway, it's an
arcane debate. I'd imagine any of the 250/6.7 lenses would perform beautifully on
8X10. At the time I was doing a lot of steep off-trail mountaineering with the Sinar
4X5 and needed an exceptional amount of rise, just like photographing tall buildings
up close, but really tall! And I preferred the slightly long focal length. This lens worked
superbly. But then I largely switched over to 8x10 soon before the lens was stolen.
I'd have to do a lot of digging to find the receipt for it. There's also a question in my
mind how many flavors of multicoating actually exist. They certainly haven't applied the same type to every lens. My two late-mfg 360 A's are obviously MC, but in a little
different manner than my 250W of similar vintage. This second observation intrigues
me quite a bit more than how many runs of the 250/6.7 there were.

[tom north]

Marc,

I have a 10" (250 mm) Kodak Commerical Ektar that covers 8 x 10 that is very sharp in a #4 Acme shutter. I shoot a lot of architecture and have never had a problem with coverage and movements. I know that the lens charts show there is coverage for these lenses but no room for movements but I also know that the manufacturers were conservative in their estimates of coverage. This is the case for Kodak lenses but how much nobody knows.

Tom

[William McEwen]

I have the 240 Schneider G-Claron. I've had it for many years, used it only a dozen or so times, but never had any problem with coverage on 8x10. Tiny and light as a feather.

[Former Member 8144]

Yes the claron is definately one of the lenses I am looking out for.

[LH1H17]

There's another great compact Fujinon lens that covers 8x10...
The 240mm A f9 !

This is a modern lens, multicoated and 336mm image circle (70 degrees coverage)
Only 225 grams (without the copal 0 shutter) !
Front filter size is only 54mm !

[Gem Singer]

Close, but no cigar---The front screw-in filter size for the Fuji f9 240A is 52mm.

As already mentioned, the Fuji 240A will barely cover 8X10 with limited movements.

However, it is a nice lens for 8X10, especially if you are trying to lighten your load.

[Armin Seeholzer]

My 210 mm Konica Gr II has quite a bit of movement on 8x10 but it has not a shutter in my case use it with the Sinar behind the lens shutter!

Cheers Armin

[LH1H17]

Close, but no cigar---The front screw-in filter size for the Fuji f9 240A is 52mm.

As already mentioned, the Fuji 240A will barely cover 8X10 with limited movements.

However, it is a nice lens for 8X10, especially if you are trying to lighten your load.

Indeed... I was going through my Fujinon Catalog (in Japanese) and confused the front filter size with the front CAP size. :(

[JdeV]

Not small at all but as you probably know, one of the most incredible lenses ever made for 8" x 10" is the Schneider Super Symmar 210XL. Nothing sharper, massive image circle. Hefty.
If you are going to do everything with one lens then don't rule this out. I have a mint one I'm about to put up for sale if you think you might be able to carry (and afford) it.
I've also used my Schneider Apo Symmar 240mm but the lack of movements is frustrating, I find it fractionally too long and it isn't terribly sharp on the edges.