Another newbie question: camera availabilty in the UK

[hmvmanuk]

I live in the North of England and am just thinking seriously about going into large format (4x5). Having sold some medium-format gear, I have a few hundred pounds to spend on a camera. I've been thinking about getting either a Shen Hao or Tachihara camera new as these seem to be priced very reasonably. I know the Shen Haos are available in the UK but I can't find anyone doing the Tachihara. I tried Teamwork Digital (who do the 10x8 model) but they don't carry the 4x5. Does anyone know where I might source a Tachihara in the UK or must I consider getting one from the U.S.A. or Japan if I decide to go for that camera? I have seen used ones on eBay occasionally but my inexperience in large format has led me to be wary of buying this way because I'm not confident in being able to spot potential faults and problems.

I wouldn't be against buying used equipment but I would prefer to do it through a reputable dealer rather than chance eBay. Can anyone recommend good dealers to approach, please?

Any advice will be gratefully received and I have avidly read previous threads on this forum regarding camera choices for the beginner.

Thanks,

Gavin

[Joanna Carter]

Might I suggest you join us on the UKLFPG forums (http://www.lf-photo.org.uk/forum) ? You might even find someone who will let you try out different cameras at one of our local get-togethers.

[hmvmanuk]

Thanks, Joanna, I will be pleased to join that forum.

[Martin Aislabie]

Robert White (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/default.asp) used to do Techiharas' but doesn't anymore

I think the Shen Hao killed off the Tech's buisness in the UK - at least in 5x4

Martin

[timing]

TBH it really depends on if you care where the camera comes from - you can get cameras sent from the US or any where else.

I had a Deardorff sent from Canada with no problems at all. Of course some sellers are a little leary of dealing with overseas buyers.

[Lachlan 717]

There's a place in Manchester called something like "The Real Camera Shop" that has a fair amount of film gear.

They've got a rubbish website, though.

I also saw a 2nd hand Wista in Halifax the other day. Looked in very nice condition; 500 quid. Can't tell you the name of the shop, but as far as I know there's only Jessop's and this place in Halifax...

Can anyone let me know if there's a good place for 2nd hand camera gear (any format) in Birmingham?

Lachlan

[hmvmanuk]

Thanks very much for your replies. Lachlan, yes I think I know the shop in Halifax you mean; I had a quick look in the window a couple of years ago when I was working over that way. I know folks in Halifax so could ask them the name of the shop. Thanks.

Gavin

ps I'm not anti buying stuff from the 'States or anywhere else but I suppose I would need to factor in higher shipping costs, VAT and import duties. If I can get it in Blighty so much the better!

[Lachlan 717]

The shop's on the lower corner of an arcade if that's any help!

Have you had a look on APUG? Google it if not...

All the best with the hunting!

Lachlan.

[Michael Wynd]

I bought my Shen Hao from Badger Graphics in the US. A good price, great service and delivered to my door in four days from time of ordering and payment. That's 4 days from the US to Australia. Damned good service.
Mike

[Lachlan 717]

I bought my Shen Hao from Badger Graphics in the US. A good price, great service and delivered to my door in four days from time of ordering and payment. That's 4 days from the US to Australia. Damned good service.
Mike

They have some weird Import Taxes here in the UK though. Unlike in Oz where we get a grand's freedom on Import, I think it's a trivial amount here before you pay 15% VAT.

Not sure if these rules explain why the Oz economy isn't in Recession! Just kidding, but just watch out dollar race ahead when the next interest rate come on Cup Day. Look out US imports!

[Pete Watkins]

I've bought cameras from forum members in the U.S. (no problems at all) but thanks to the morons that operate U.K. customs you would need to allow 4-6 weeks for delivery from the U.S. They also charge you VAT (even on the postage and packing) there are also other charges, I can't remember what they're for (probably to help pay M.P's expenses). They make it easy to pay though, credit card over the phone.
If you're not in a hurry it's worth considering.
Best wishes,
Pete.

[gari beet]

I would look at the Shen Hao PTB at Robert Whites, the same wieght as a Tachi with a little more movement. I used to have a Tachi, which I really liked, the only thing I missed was some Shift which the PTB has.

I am thinking of getting one myself as a mountain/travel camera in fact. The cost is about £500 inc postage and there deliv ery service is second to none, I usually get it the next day, in Scotland!

Good luck with the hunt and welcome to group therapy:D

Gari

[r.e.]

I can't remember what they're for (probably to help pay M.P's expenses).

I damn near spilled my morning coffee when I read that :)

Doesn't everybody need to clean out their moat from time to time?

[Stephen Lewis]

hi Gavin

Have a look here http://www.foto-arte.co.uk/Shen_Hao.html

[Joanna Carter]

They have some weird Import Taxes here in the UK though.
Not really that wierd. Simply take the US value of the goods, add 6.5% duty to that, then add in the carriage charges and add the VAT to the total amount. Not forgetting that there may be a "collection" charge payable to the carrier for their part in collecting the taxes.

[Lachlan 717]

Not really that wierd. Simply take the US value of the goods, add 6.5% duty to that, then add in the carriage charges and add the VAT to the total amount. Not forgetting that there may be a "collection" charge payable to the carrier for their part in collecting the taxes.

I stand corrected!!:)

[hmvmanuk]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and recommendations. Plenty for me to think about!

Gavin

[Martin Aislabie]

I have bought loads of stuff from the USA and have always been amazed at how simple the Import System was.

I would budget on a 25% mark up for VAT and Import Duty but it was always less then that by a small amount - but 25% is a good place to start for budgeting purposes.

Delivery time varied depending on the delivery option selected - from less than a week door to door to about 17 days - you get what you pay for.

Martin

[Ole Tjugen]

I've used several different LF cameras, and fondled many more...

But what I use now is Gandolfi Traditional in 7x5" and 10x8". Why settle for second best?

My 4x5" camera is a Carbon Infinity, but I don't think I would recommend that for a beginner, even if they were readily available and affordable...

[hmvmanuk]

Martin, thanks for your comments on importing. I had been wondering about duty and VAT and had been thinking about contacting HMRC for guidance. Your 25% rule sounds a good rule of thumb.

I've noticed, though, that few US stores actually have the Tachihara 4x5 in stock, Teamwork Digital here only have the 10x8 model. I'm wondering if supplies of new Tachiharas are difficult to get now. Does anyone know the current situation with supplies of the Chamonix 45N-1? I gather they're produced in batches months apart.

Gavin

[mortensen]

Hi Gavin
I got one of the last Chamonix 45-n1's - the last batch was produced this August. Contact Hugo on this forum or via the contact info you find at: http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/ there might be a few left. I'm personally (as everyone else, it seems...) very happy with the camera. Looks good, works great - rigid and light. 'Advertising' aside, be shure to read the 'important announcement' on their web. The camera has a focusing error due to a design flaw. Me and numerous others don't have problems with this, but don't take my word, I'm still a novice and haven't yet shot enough images at f8 and f11 to be sure, that it is not a concern for me.

There's been a few used on sale here at the forum lately... dunno whether they are all gone. Apart from that, the ShenHao PTB is an EXCACT copy of the Chamonix (which is a copy of some other camera), although I don't know if it is as rigid as the chamonix.

And one last thing - I could only buy the chamonix directly from the factory in China. Since I live in denmark, I get even more expenses from customs, VAT etc... and it was still the most affordable choice.

[mortensen]

... to clarify things about the 45N-1:
the august batch was the last to be produced ever. new models will be released in the summer of 2010 or later.

[hmvmanuk]

Mortensen, thank you for your helpful info. I'll try contacting Chamonix direct to find out availability of the 45N-1 and its replacement.

Yes, this focusing issue has concerned me a bit but most users of the camera who post on the various forums don't seem that bothered by it.

Gavin.

[Lachlan 717]

Buy a Shen and put the difference into getting some good glass. You'll see the difference sooner that by buying a more expensive body.

Lachlan.

[percepts]

I don't think you have stated how you are going to print these images. i.e. using an enlarger or scan to print digitally.

4x5 is big enough for 20x16 from consumer scanners and maybe a little bigger, say 30x20. There are more things to think of than the price although that may be the limiting factor.

So just to give you another option, especially if you are scanning and want big prints, how about a Walker 5x7. See http://www.walkercameras.com/

They make 5x4 too but I suppose price may be too much and size for hiking. But they are just near Chester so within range for a day out to have a look see.

On the other hand if you want cheap, very light and very compact then maybe not. Or if you are using an enlarger then a 4x5 may be big enough as 5x7 or bigger are monster enlargers.

[Frank Bunnik]

I am also new to 4x5 but I do have a Horseman VHR with some 4x5 and 5x7 lenses. Recently I decided to try 4x5 and bought a Crown Graphic from Keh in the USA. I live in the Netherlands. Incl. shipping by USPS the camera costs about 160 euro. Can't get a 4x5 field camera much cheaper I guess. If I don't like it, I can always sell it for about the same price. I now the Crown has some limitations regarding moments but I plan to use it for portraits and landscape and from what I have read, the movements the Crown offers should be enough for these purposes.

If you want to try b&w film, you might have a look at www.fomafoto.com. A company from Norway that sells film cheaply. I ordered a box of 100 iso sheetfilm and it arrived in 3 days.

Good luck with your choice,
Frank

[Mike V]

There's a place in Manchester called something like "The Real Camera Shop" that has a fair amount of film gear.

They've got a rubbish website, though.

I also saw a 2nd hand Wista in Halifax the other day. Looked in very nice condition; 500 quid. Can't tell you the name of the shop, but as far as I know there's only Jessop's and this place in Halifax...

Can anyone let me know if there's a good place for 2nd hand camera gear (any format) in Birmingham?

Lachlan


You could try PFD in Ardwick, Manchester, if your by that way. They dont have a website but heres the address:

http://www.swpp.co.uk/trade/5773.htm

They have an 8x10 in there at the moment. Quite a few 4x5 bodies and lenses. Worth a look if you are in the area.

[Lachlan 717]

You could try PFD in Ardwick, Manchester, if your by that way. They dont have a website but heres the address:

http://www.swpp.co.uk/trade/5773.htm

They have an 8x10 in there at the moment. Quite a few 4x5 bodies and lenses. Worth a look if you are in the area.

I was in the "Real Camera" store on Saturday.

Not much LF stuff: some Graphics and an MPP. Nothing in the lens department of much note.

Plenty of Leica stuff, though.

Not really worth the effort, really.

Lachlan.

[hmvmanuk]

Thanks Mike for the PFD tip and to everyone for your helpful comments and advice. I rang the Real Camera Co. in Manchester and they only mentioned a couple of MPPs.

I've discounted a Chamonix now as, nice though it is, by the time I've paid shipping costs, Paypal charges and probable duty/VAT it puts it well over my budget and leaves me not very much for a lens, board, film holders etc etc. I'm also thinking that I'd rather buy a cheaper camera and put more into a good lens as I want to shoot colour transparencies.

Frustratingly, I just missed a nice Tachihara on eBay the other day. I might even end up going with a new Shen from uk.topstock (Foto-Arte) who sell the TZ45A at a reasonable price on eBay. The other camera that's come up on my radar recently is the Toyo 45A. I gather it's possible to get one for around £350-400.

Still pondering, Gavin.

[Colin Robertson]

If you don't know already, www.ffordes.co.uk are good to deal with. Regular new LF stock, so worth checking the site regularly. Got my shen hao, lenses, holders et al from them with never a problem. Cheers

[hmvmanuk]

Thanks, Colin, yes I have checked the Ffordes site from time to time.

Do you like your Shen and does it seem well built and sturdy enough?

Gavin

[Lachlan 717]

Latest (last, in fact, as i am typing this at Manchester International) update on Real Camera in Manchester:

They have a couple of Sinars and a Toyo. One Sinar and the Toyo are in the window; one Sinar inside.

Looks also to be an old Kodak timber in the window as well, but I don't know if it's for sale.

Lachlan.