Wide Angle Voigt Euryscop?

[goamules]

I got this yesterday at a local camera show. I've researched as much as I can, and believe it's a Wide Angle Rectilinear, but questions abound. It's not marked with anything other than who made it, serial number, and a number 2.

"What is certain is that some of these older RR lenses are not engraved with Euryscop or any type name- all carry "Voigtländer & Sohn/Wein/Braunschweig" together with a size number and serial number only." - Vade Mecum

No F markings, but I measured it at 7 inch and f12.x. I did see two bright, one dim reflections. It's from 1890 by the serial number.

Is it using Jena glass? Is a WAR the same as a Euryscop? I think this is a Euryscop VII from the Vade's info. Anyone have more info?

It appears to be pretty uncommon from Voigtlander, who got out of WARs pretty early. It was so minty, with cap and flange, I had to get it. It appears to cover 8x10.

Garrett

[Steven Tribe]

Very convincing! I have just re-read the VM and even the rotary version available matches with your deductions. I shouldn't think anyone knows whether a series VII from 1890 is new or old glass. They can't have redesigned all of the Euryscops overnight. The figure 2 usually means coverage for 13x18cm.

[CCHarrison]

Here is a line drawing of the Wide Angle Euryscop

[CCHarrison]

More data from 1890 Benj French Catalogue....

[CCHarrison]

Here is the next page featuring "different glass..." Pehaps non-Jena glass, since these are cheaper....?

Dan

[goamules]

Thanks, this is great data. My FL fits with the first catalog page (around 7") but it sure seems to cover 8x10. The second catalog page says it will cover 8x10, but the No. 2 is shorter FL. Hmmmm, it's never an exact science. Thanks.

[Steven Tribe]

Now this Benjamin French of Boston Catalogue would be a fabulous addition to Camera Eccentric's posted list! Does it include the Darlot imports too - or had they lost the Agency before 1890?

[Paul Fitzgerald]

"I shouldn't think anyone knows whether a series VII from 1890 is new or old glass. They can't have redesigned all of the Euryscops overnight. "

the 1890 catalog states that ALL Euryscopes have the new Jena glass, so yes, 1890 should have the new glass.

" Does it include the Darlot imports too "

Yes, it includes the Darlot lenses.

[goamules]

I finally properly mounted this lens yesterday, and wow! What a sharp image on the ground glass. I took it out at sundown and shot a couple 5x7s, that look great as negatives. I'll post when I get them printed or scanned.

[Tim Deming]

Here are some more WA euryscops (and a few others to boot!). The three WA versions (the ones with wheel stops) are all clearly marked "Series VII", and are #s 3, 4, and 6. These ones correspond to the second series in the BF & Co advert posted above. All cover 8x10 well and give sharp negs. The #6 is for a much larger camera, but I dont have anything bigger than 8x10 to try it out on.

The other Euryscops are two Series VI (f7 "normal" RR version), and the one in the upper right is a Series III, rapid wide angle (f6), which is fairly uncommon, and came with an iris diaphragm.

cheers

Tim

[Tim Deming]

Forgot to add, the easiest way to tell the different WA Euryscops apart is to correlate the number with the lens diameter, which are all given in the BF catalog. I believe 3 different types of WA Euryscops were made, each with different glass.

Tim

[goamules]

Hey, thanks Tim. Now I feel obligated to do some printing of the negs I shot the other day.

[Tim Deming]

Sorry, The biggest lens in my photo is a Series V, rapid wide angle (f6), not Series III (those are portrait Euryscops).

must have been dosing off yesterday...

Tim

[goamules]

OK, I did a quick contact print of one of the negatives. I'm pretty impressed at the sharpness of this 120 year old lens. 5x7 on Tri-x 400.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4534836567_847ec57228.jpg

(a lot) Larger on black (http://bighugelabs.com/onblack.php?id=4534836567&posted=1&size=large)

[Tim Deming]

Nice image Garrett. Now I'm feeling motivated to see what I can get with my old Euryscops.

cheers

Tim

[goamules]

Thanks. Yeah, this one just moved to the front of the line for my (all antique) landscape lenses, now in front of lever stop Darlots and WAR Dallmeyers. I need to shoot my 1906 Protar VIIa more to see how it stacks with that. Excuse the dust on the large version....I'm going to print this an another neg more carefully when I'm not so tired.

[Steven Tribe]

A little contribution to the knowledge of the various series VII!
I have just got hold of a series VIIa size 8, labelled as F18. I do not have this in my hands, as yet, but will check the lens diameter to see it matches up with the dimensions given in CC's Darlot/Voigtländer Catalogue. The serial number is not clear in photographs but it has the usual Waterhouse stop slot for larger sizes. It is, perhap 69,699.
If it turns out to be the same 8 as in the VII list, it will be well beyond my present image size registration capabilities!

[Steven Tribe]

The above mentioned series VII a - serial number 69,699 (1901?) with very clean glass, is now in my hands.
It is definitely a new variety of Euryscop wide angle.

Finally, Voigtländer got round to labelling their lenses as well as anybody - instead of guess work!
VII a 8, 1:18. Diameter is 31mm - which gives a focal length of 558mm. Which I have checked to be about right.
The first series VII were around F14. I'll try a get an idea of coverage tomorrow.
This seems to have been made for a very short time (collinear arrived).
But if anyone does have Voigtländer catalogue information for around 1900 - 1902, I would eternally grateful?

[cdholden]

I found my Portrait Euryscope to be from the third series. It is a 4A. Nowhere on the lens does it say "Series III" like I've seen some on of the others.

[Steven Tribe]

No one have any ideas about the series VIIa?

[goamules]

Hey Steven, I don't know what the "a" means, but I'm sure it's a good lens! I just shot mine again a few minutes ago, with wetplate. I'll post in "still lifes".

[Steven Tribe]

Thanks for the encouragement!
My own reasoning is that this was the last experiment with wide angled Euryscop types which didn't catch on because of the F18 and Voigtländer's success with Collinear and Heliar.
Sunny to-day, so I will have a look at the illuminated circle.

[Hugo Zhang]

I came across a No. 8 with serial number 25919 last year and there is no wide angle or euryscop on the barrel. It is 32" and f/18 and its measurement matches VII No. 8 on Voigt 1890 catalogue with coverage of 24x36 at its smallest stop. Got some waterhouse stops made and popped it on my camera yesterday, it is indeed very sharp to my naked eyes. :)

[Steven Tribe]

Definitely made in the serial number range that didn't have the Euryskop engraving. First identified WA from this period, too!

[goamules]

I've had this one a while, that I think is a Euryscop VII. Steven was talking about the V version, so I thought I'd show this one.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7420/26767627103_281251328d_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7265/26766667284_3c6b83328f_b.jpg

I shot this with it.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4067/4534836567_a1ca3634d4_o.png

[Steven Tribe]

Both Tim and I have the reference book.

Garrett, yours is size 2. So:

Series VII is F11 and has 11/16" front glass diameter f length is 6 1/3". ROtary stops.

Extra series 8/16" front glass diameter f length is 5 1/2", SUggestion of Jena glass. Rotary stops.

Additional extra series (Fast) front glass diameter. is 1 1/4", f length is 7". "New and expensive glass". Rotary stops.

Series VIII F.14. Front lens diameter 13.2mm, f length, no f length info. Waterhouse stops.

They all seem to appeared around 1889-1891.