What bag to get for a 4x5 system (Sinar F2)?

[macandal]

Initially, I had my eyes set on the Lowepro Photo Trekker AW II (http://products.lowepro.com/product/Photo-Trekker-AW-II,1992,14.htm), in part because it's recommended all over the place (including here).

http://products.lowepro.com//CatalogImages/18-1992-IMG1_LRG.jpeg

But I went by a store that carries it yesterday, and that thing is huge! At this moment, since I'm just getting started in LF (and photography in general), I don't have a lot of stuff, just the basics: Sinar F2 4x5, one lens, six holders, loupe, light meter, dark cloth, changing bag. I don't expect to get too much more. Perhaps a few more holders, a couple of more lenses and that's it. That's all I can think about. Anyway, I saw two other bags at the store that are not that big but could be used to carry my stuff. They were the Tamrac Expedition 6x (http://www.tamrac.com/5586.htm) and the M-Rock Zion (http://www.m-rock.com/zion-backpack-camera-bag.html).

http://www.tamrac.com/5586-closed-E.jpgTamrac Expedition 6x

http://www.m-rock.com/catalog/images/productImages/LG-670_1.jpgM-Rock Zion

I know I have to leave some extra room to carry other stuff (pen, note pad, lunch, etc), but it still seems to me that the Lowepro is way too big! Does anyone know if the alternatives I've offered would be able to carry all my equipment? Or I would be open to hear any other suggestions you may have. I know that the best way to know for sure would be to bring my equipment to the store, but, well, I don't have a way to bring it there, you know? (It's all stored in that big case and I don't have a car.) Thanks.

[PBrooks]

The search for the perfect bag or backpack to carry all your stuff for every circumstance. This something that everyone deals with and it is an ongoing struggle. On one hand you want it to be light, you know so you can carry it everwhere you might want to go, from hiking to subway riding. On the other hand it has to hold all your stuff and potentially carry all your future stuff and then there is security. Do you want everyone to know that there is camera equipment in the bag? One solution is to have a bag for every situation, this can be expensive and take up your entire closet with bags that only get used once in a while, I speak from experience. The other solution is to get a backpack from some place like photobackpacker or the like and just deal with those times that it is a little inconvenent like while riding the subway. Just remember that if you go the first you have to remember in what bag you put what. I have done both of these and I still don't know but maybe I just have too many camera as I feel I want to use them all all the time. Good luck on your search.

[Mark Stahlke]

Have you looked at the PhotoBackpacker (http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp) system?

It looks like the best bag for LF. I plan to get one for 8x10 but I think I need to get a job first.

Cheers,
Mark

[Jim Michael]

What I did with my Horseman might work for your F2. My goal was total weight not much more that an empty LowePro bag. I chose a Kelty Redwing 3100 which is a pretty light bag when empty. I can assemble the Horseman quickly so I store everything disassembled. The standards go in a Kelty 12-pack cooler bag (sourced from Campmor) with a piece of ensolite foam separating them. The filmholders and bellows go in Thermos insulated lunch bags (from Target). Lenses go in either wraps or small zipped pouches.

[Frank Petronio]

Those dedicated packs are ok for small formats but you end up tossing half of the contents and still end up with a heavier pack with a mediocre harness. What I see here is a lot people buy a good backpack that fits and then fill it with smaller packages to organize and segregate the gear. Seems a lot more versatile and probably better for usability, you can use a top loader too and not have to splay everything out in the mud.

That said, I used a couple of Think Tank backpacks and they were the best of the camera packs, they have a rectangular design so you get more usable space and they are very well made packs that don't shout, "I have $5000 of cameras in here!" like the Lowes and other brands do.

[Ken Lee]

Unless you're a trekker, you might consider something as simple as a canvas tote bag and a beer cooler (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html#Gear).

[macandal]

Unless you're a trekker, you might consider something as simple as a canvas tote bag and a beer cooler (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html#Gear).

Thanks Ken, but that doesn't seem like a feasable way to carry the equipment. I'm not a trekker, but I don't have a car, so I have to carry my equipment myself (even in a city setting).

[Ken Lee]

Gotcha.

When i purchased my first LF lens in NYC back in the early 1970's, I was nervous, and realized that the best way to carry it on the subway, was in a wrinkled brown lunch bag.

You might consider looking for something equivalent - like the kind of bag that people use for carrying their smelly exercise gear. They are inexpensive, readily available, and anonymous. They have excellent straps, and can be found in budget chain stores for ten or twenty dollars.

[macandal]

I used a couple of Think Tank backpacks and they were the best of the camera packs, they have a rectangular design so you get more usable space and they are very well made packs that don't shout, "I have $5000 of cameras in here!" like the Lowes and other brands do.

Which models did you use? Which model do you think will fit my equipment in? Thanks.

[Frank Petronio]

I haven't actually, I just toss my unpadded, loose Crown Graphic camera into a $39 EMS Daypack and put a plastic bag of holders on top. With a larger camera I often use a milk crate or a LL Bean Canvas Bag, lol.

When I used a Sinar I would fold it upon itself and wrap it in the dark cloth and put it into a beer cooler. Now you can get a rolling cooler ;-) When I had more $ and flew it for jobs I used a giant $400 Tenba View Camera Case that was 14x28x32 inches, lol.

If you really want to get packing with a Sinar, follow James Driscoll's advice:


Here is a drawing of the how to fold a Sinar Norma or F/F1/F2 camera for "packing". It is easier to see it than describe it.

For the ultimate in compactness my choice would be a Sinar F2 (just feels better than a F/F1) with a norma rail clamp. The norma rail clamp is a lower profile than the later style one.

Whatever rail clamp you use- leave it on the tripod.

You can leave the bellows attached to one standard. If you play with the rise of the standards you can often leave a lens attached. Ultimately you get a Sinar Pan-Tilt Head and leave the smaller Norma rail clamp attached and you're in Sinar Swiss Nirvana.

[J D Clark]

Have you looked at the PhotoBackpacker (http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp) system?

It looks like the best bag for LF. I plan to get one for 8x10 but I think I need to get a job first.

Cheers,
Mark

I *do* have a backpack from Photo Backpacker (http://www.photobackpacker.com/home.asp), and it really does do a great job when combined with the camera and lens cases also. The empty pack and cases are quite light, so a greater percentage of what you end up carrying is usable equipment. And Bruce at Photo Backpacker is dedicated to making sure your pack fits, and is adjusted correctly.

John Clark
www.johndclark.com

[Dave Jeffery]

Having spent a number of years hiking I looked at a lot of backpacks based on their ability to set the weight of the pack properly on my hips and have good pockets and accessability. The Kelty 3100 is a side loader which opens up well for easy access to the gear.
After I had purchased this backpack it turned out that Photobackpacker had chosen the same pack for their camera pack system. As I looked for cases for my camera lenses etc. photobackpacker also had the lightest cases. I didn't want to buy cases with foam as I could add packing foam easily and on long hikes every ounce counts. Although the cases are light they are very strong and durable.
I would say that the Kelty 3100 with 4x5 gear is a 2 day pack to carry all food and strap bedding and etc on. For longer than 2 day trips and for cold weather with lots of clothes a bigger pack is needed. Mostly I use the 3100 as a day pack for my 4x5 and it's perfect, but I also used it to hike through the Grand Canyon (warm weather).

Happy trails!

[Allen in Montreal]

I use a lowepro trekker aw,
not that great, ok, but not ideal, it is a few inches too thin. It worked very well when I had Arca, the Sinar is a little larger and the small difference, as well as that added by the tripod block, it just doesn't fit in to the case that smoothly compared to the Arca.
If you can, bring your gear to the shop and fit the bag before buying, the depth can be the real issue.

I carry a small sheet of thick plastic in a pouch to lay it down on the ground to work out of.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9726/9983x.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/9983x.jpg/)

[ki6mf]

I have an Adorama bag that currently sells for $79.95 It works great and doesn't have the high cost of "Photography" back Packs. http://www.adorama.com/GBRBK.html

[mandoman7]

In a pinch you can use the backpacks that kids use for their school books, which you can get anyplace for $15. When I started out, I had 2 or 3 other outfits (35, medium) and couldn't justify another nice bag at that time. I had a bunch of foam rubber cut up to make compartments and to generally insulate.

Now, I have a phototrekker AW, and its great, along with a huge one made by Tenba for the 8x10. But there are times when I just want to go out and take one or 2 lenses and a few holders, and just about any kind of bag will work for those short trips.

To me the most critically important consideration is to not have the creative impulses constrained by equipment inconveniences. Those can be weight and bulk when they're not needed, or by not being able to find the thing you need at the critical moment.

[William McEwen]

When I had a Sinar Alpina, I used the Zone VI monorail case. It was excellent -- it stored holders, extra lens, meter, darkcloth, etc, and the camera upside down.

Fine Art Photo Supply used to sell something similar; here is a look:

http://www.fineartphotosupply.com/Camerabagpage.htm

Perhaps there is something similar out there. It was a good way to work. When I traveled by air, I put the case into a strong cardboard box I made to custom fit it.

[Allen in Montreal]

....

Now, I have a phototrekker AW, and its great....

To me the most critically important consideration is to not have the creative impulses constrained by equipment inconveniences. Those can be weight and bulk when they're not needed, or by not being able to find the thing you need at the critical moment.

Are you packing a Sinar in that PT AW?

I would love to see the configuration if it can help me improve it, to date, it is really touchy zipping it closed if everything is not perfectly packed because of the width of the camera.
I loved it with the smaller, sleeker Arca F compact. :(

[Sergei Antonov]

I don't think I could find or wish anything better than Kelty + PhotoBackpacker things that I use now. Dedicated photo backpack is just way too heavy and fancy. I also have big Tamrack bag they offer for medium format -- I am using it when I am not trekking, which is about 90% of time, backpack is only good to carry things, otherwise a regular bag is much more practical. I you don't plan to hike with your camera, use bag. I am not sure how heavy is Sinar, my Chamonix with all lenses and holders is actually much lighter than minimal set of RB67.

--Sergei

[J Ney]

I have a Lowepro SuperTrekker and it definitely does the job but it is HEAVY and PRICEY!!!! It literally carries everything needed but I usually have a smaller "day-pack" to carry individual systems on longer hikes.

Fully packed in the SuperTrekker I can carry: dSLR w/ 2 lenses; Pentax 67 w/ 3 lenses; Tachihara 4x5 w/ 2 lenses and all the goodies. I haven't weighed it, but I would wager that it weighs between 60 - 70lb. The ergonomics of the bag are really nice, though.

[Drew Wiley]

I carried my Sinar in the top compartment of a Kelty Tioga external frame pack.
The whole thing was left assembled, with extra rail extensions and a 28" bellows,
bellows shade in place, even the lens in place (simply capped). The camera was
cusioned within a goosedown jacket, placed between two boxes of filmholders, one
of each side. The jacket provided superb insulation for both camera and film. Extra
lenses etc were kept in side pouches. The lower half of the pack was devoted to
camping gear. I carried the Sinar on foot thousands of miles in this manner. This
was the original USA style Kelty pack, not the bait-and-switch made in China type
sold nowadays. You can still find them used sometimes on fleabay. Very fast to use,
since the camera could simply be pulled out and placed in the rail clamp, the lenscap removed, and ready to focus! Wonderful balance too for a heavy load (often
85-90 lbs or more on long treks). I have since lightened my load quite a bit by
switching to an Ebony 4x5 and Quickload holders, but certainly do miss the quick
setup of the Sinar monorail system.

[macandal]

Gotcha.

When i purchased my first LF lens in NYC back in the early 1970's, I was nervous, and realized that the best way to carry it on the subway, was in a wrinkled brown lunch bag.

You might consider looking for something equivalent - like the kind of bag that people use for carrying their smelly exercise gear. They are inexpensive, readily available, and anonymous. They have excellent straps, and can be found in budget chain stores for ten or twenty dollars.Good point, Ken, except that the tripod is a dead give away.

[macandal]

I use a lowepro trekker aw,
not that great, ok, but not ideal, it is a few inches too thin. It worked very well when I had Arca, the Sinar is a little larger and the small difference, as well as that added by the tripod block, it just doesn't fit in to the case that smoothly compared to the Arca.
If you can, bring your gear to the shop and fit the bag before buying, the depth can be the real issue.

I carry a small sheet of thick plastic in a pouch to lay it down on the ground to work out of.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9726/9983x.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/9983x.jpg/)Allen, is this an F2? How can you fit that rail across like that? According to the specs, that bag should be 12" across. My railing alone is 17"!! How did you do it?

[macandal]

Okay, does anyone have experience with the M-Rock Zion. I have a chance to get the late model 525 (http://www.m-rock.com/525zion-p-47.html) for very cheap. Unfortunately, if I buy it, I keep it. There's no chance to see if the equipment fits. Like I said, I have a Sinar F2. Does anyone know if it'll fit? Please help. Thanks.

[rdenney]

Allen, is this an F2? How can you fit that rail across like that? According to the specs, that bag should be 12" across. My railing alone is 17"!! How did you do it?

The F2 is supposed to come with the same basic 12" rail as the F1, F, and P. Are you sure yours doesn't have a 6" extender screwed into it? All the Sinar 4x5 cameras came with a 12" rail according to my catalogs. It's so easy to throw an extender onto it that there is no advantage to having a longer rail.

I'm using a "mobile briefcase" that I bought at Office Depot. It has wheels and a handle, like luggage, but unlike most briefcases is approximately cubical in shape. It had a plastic file holder which I discarded. I made a back section that holds two standard bellows (one with clips and rod to use a shade), my Fuji PA-45, and my Pentax spot meter. It has a removable two-compartment zip-up case that holds six lenses, including two that are large (90 and 121mm SA's), and the Vario fits next to it. That leaves the front zipper compartment for film and a 6" rail extension. The camera fits int the middle, with my Blackjacket dark cloth in its stuff sack next to it, and the ends of the rail resting on the rear compartment divider and the zip-case for the lenses. My Horizon loupe sits at the bottom under the dark cloth. I leave the tripod adapter on the tripod, which I carry in my other hand. So far, it has worked reasonably well.

Rick "whose F has an F2 front standard now and still fits" Denney

[macandal]

The part that I don't understand is how you guys make the depth (I don't know if I'm calling this part right, but I hope you get what I'm referring to) fit. I'm referring to the narrow side of a bag (the smaller measurement). Even the Lowepro Photo Trekker AW II (http://products.lowepro.com/product/Photo-Trekker-AW-II,1992,14.htm), which everyone agrees is THE BAG for my Sinar F2, is no more than 6" deep yet, when I measured the width of my camera (looking at the lens of the camera, measuring across--i.e., from left to right) it came out to about 8" because of the knobs on the side of the camera. Most bags' depth is similar. They're no more than 6" deep. How do you guys do it? Even you, Photo Trekker AW II users, how do you do it? Thanks.

[Ken Lee]

Good point, Ken, except that the tripod is a dead give away.

You're right !

OK, how about a cheapo gym bag for the tripod... with this emblem on it:

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/waste.gif

[macandal]

You're right !

OK, how about a cheapo gym bag for the tripod... with this emblem on it:

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/waste.gifNow we're getting somewhere. Now you're talking.

[Stephane]

When I use my F2, I take the frames off the standard by shifting them out. I had to remove the small stop-screw that prevents the frames from shifting too far. I wrap the too frames (with gg) in the dark cloth, while the 2 standards are placed in a soft sandwich coolbag (sold at Rei, the kelty "toto" model) separated by a thin foam pad.
That means I have to build the camera from scratch, but it is fairly fast. I also do not like to carry the camera as a rigid block in a backpack (paranoia?).
Lenses are placed in a slightly larger and more padded coolbag, and the light meter, filters, extra bellows, gps, stopwatch in another. All fits in a normal 60l backpack (us$80 kelty redwing). The extra rails are on the long side pockets, and the tripod at the bottom fastened with straps.

[macandal]

When I use my F2...,Stephane, thanks, and sorry for taking advantage of your kindness, but, is it possible I can persuade you to take some pictures of how you pack your F2? The same way QT Luong (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/camera-bag/) and Daniel Geiger (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/camera-bag-daniel-geiger/) have done here? Not as detailed as they have but just a few shots? Either way thanks.

(Other F2 users and their packing skills are strongly encouraged to post pictures.)

[Stephane]

I will... this evening or tomorrow, Got to go to work now.

[Stephane]

here are they are...

[Stephane]

And the last ones. Hope you can see what's in it.

[macandal]

Thanks Stephane. I hope other F2 users post their packing configurations.

I think some kind of disassembly is the way to go for me. I was trying to avoid it but I don't see how. Thanks again.

[Allen in Montreal]

Sorry for the delay getting back to this thread.
yes it is an F2. This setup to have no disassembly of the camera requires me to remove only the 6 inch extension rail form the base rail, which is 12 inches. If you have a 17 inch. it is not the "base rail" that came with the camera as a new kit from what I understand. The camera came with a 12 inch plus a 6 inch. The base rail has black ends that can not be turned to lock into another rail, other rails lock into it and those rails have red ends.

I typically pack 6 holders, 5 lenses, bag bellows, a dark cloth, extension rail, loup, note pad, spot meter, filters, release, and few other small odds and ends in the bag.

The only way I have found to make it work without removing parts from the basic camera is by turning the tripod block the way it is shown in the picture. It is snug, but it fits and zips if packed perfectly. I am open to suggestions if others have a better way to pack this camera in that type of bag. :--)

I use an AW, I think the current version is an AW2 and it may be a touch bigger, I am not sure, I have not looked at the newer version.


Allen, is this an F2? How can you fit that rail across like that? According to the specs, that bag should be 12" across. My railing alone is 17"!! How did you do it?

[BennehBoy]

Frank, that norma rail clamp tip is a good one, thanks for pointing it out.

[macandal]

The base rail has black ends that can not be turned to lock into another rail, other rails lock into it and those rails have red ends.True. The one I was referring to (17") has red ends. I should switch it to the base rail (black ends). Thanks for pointing that out.