Bellows material for FS 7x17 - sourcing question

[Robert Edward McClure]

In process of replacing bellows on a Folmer-Schwing 7x17. Both bellows (primary and secondary/for front tilt) must include material that is both opaque and fairly thin -'thin' enough to allow camera to be folded/latched properly for transport. All in all, not a terribly difficult or unique requirement, I suppose.

I am using J.B. Harlin's excellent Bellows Construction booklet (available free online, btw). Harlin recommends a a near flat black, light-weight cotton fabric for inner liner. I have located, for example, a nice black Habotai 8mm silk. Other cotton and Rayon fabrics are also easily found.

But Harlin recommends/uses an outer covering of "thin, light-weight, strong, 100% light-proof" material that's "black, 100 denier Nylon vulcanized one side." He bought all the supplier had. My goggle searches have turned up nothing like this material from anyone so far.

Anyone have suggestions for an alternate material (and source for it) for the outer covering? I figure this doesn't have to be rocket science, but I'd still like to do the job adequately well.

(And please, for those who feel the urge, refrain from saying to me: (1) WTF!! Are you going to make photographs or be a bellows-maker!! (Answer: I'm going to do both, providing it doesn't violate state/federal laws.) (2) WTF!! Why don't you just have the bellows made by folks who do it for a living!? (Answer: Because I don't want to do that) (3) WTF!! Why don't you ask J.B. Harlin? (Answer: 'Cause he says he bought all the '100 denier Nylon vulcanized one-side' his supplier had. Plus, the guy already let me have his excellent resource for free.) Ha, ha!!

Many Thanks in Advance and Best Regards to All!!!!

[77seriesiii]

On the bellows material, have you tried a local sewing shop? If you have a material code (think inventory or model number) call the shop or just go in. While visiting my mother over the summer I finally realized how much the old lady knew about cloth, where to buy it and how to put it together when I started asking about dark cloths. :D

Another thought on the sewing shop, bring in your design and camera and talk to the ladies there about what you are trying to do. IF it is like any of the ones I used to get dragged into as a kid...and somehow 40 years later...they will get a kick out of what you are trying to do and probably help or give ideas/tips/tricks. Worth a shot.

Another source for possible cloth is Walmart, especially if know the cloth number/ID. According to some of the guys on a collodion forum, Walmart carries or can get almost any cloth.

Good luck

[jb7]

wtf does wtf mean...

I'd be surprised if finding the right cloth is going to be easy-
i've got two types of bellows,
Arca Swiss, and ones I made myself,
and although I thought I had located a nice thin, supple material,
when they were made up,
it turned out to be stiff, and bulkier than expected-

Still usable, just not Arca-

I used the Harlin guide too, the best out there-

Be sure to post the outcome, hope it goes well for you-
and good luck with the cloth-

If only I could track down the cloth used on changing bags, or tents...
but there's not much call for that here...

You may need to make it in two parts, if it doesn't come out of one width-
adding to the difficulty-

btw, I posted mine here a while back-
dunno if it would be any help-

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=45345

[eric mac]

I used the window blackout material sold by Porters and I think a silk liner. I used 3m 77 spray adhesive to glue them together. (or was it contact cement, I can't remember.) Someone else suggested car headliner adhesive, but this came out in goobs which didn't work very well.

BTW It was for a 4x10 bellows. A bit lopsided, but not bad for a first try.

WTF- Wasn't that funny.

Eric

[EdWorkman]

Freestyle offers dark cloth- at least did last year, when Porter's didn't.
Can't say if it's what you "gotta have", but I made a bellows of it- on the inside, with some other stuff I got at the fabric store for the outside, manila folder stiffeners, 11x11 to 6x6, or so. I made mine ugly as sin, but it is light tite. I have two or three other sizes to make when I can face it again, then maybe do the first one over again

[Glenn Thoreson]

I have used the blackout cloth from Freestyle. It works pretty well if you watch what you use for glue. Any glue with strong solvents in it can "melt" the rubberized coating. That creates a goo that doesn't adhere that well. I think, if you're good and fast enough to do it, lightly spraying both surfaces and letting them dry before assembly might solve the goo problem. That brings up another potential problem, though. When the glue is dry it attaches itself tenaciously the instant it touches the other piece. Gotta be quick and precise. If I ever have to make another bellows, I will use skiver leather and plain tightly woven cotton liner.

[ic-racer]

The "Porter's Blackout Cloth" is no longer available (n/a at Freestyle also). My darkroom apron seemed like it was made of the right stuff but it was too small for an 8x10 bellows.

I searched every sewing shop in a major metropolitan area and the thinnest vinyl was still almost 3 times as thick as needed. I wound up with a thicker than normal bellows.

[Robert Edward McClure]

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond to my questions - I appreciate very much and will post results of my searches for appropriate material.

Best to All!!
Robert McClure

[big_ben_blue]

A while back, someone on the auction block mentioned that the bellows on his camera (a gorgeous Rochester 10x12 folder) were custom made out of Hypalon. This material is usually associated with inflateable boats in bright colours etc ... I haven't found a source for it that mentions light tightness however.
Somewhere else (might even have been here on the forum) somebody mentioned rubberized material used for pump organ bellows. It MAY actually work; however the stuff can be really expensive (50$ per yard). There may also be issues in cold or hot weather conditions if the rubber used is all natural.
Keep us posted - I am looking for a bellows material source too (the fabric stores here in a 100 mile radius are totally useless :-( ).

[jb7]

Again, I'd like to track down the silver material used in the Harrison tents-
bringing bellows into the space age-
I wonder would they sell me some...

Perhaps they could do a nice little sideline selling the cloth to diy bellows makers...