What is this, a SinarC or a hack-job?

[Darryl Baird]

I have a Sinar C from a previous purchase and always assumed the C was just a P rear standard outfitted with an F (or F1/F2) front standard.

I received this camera today and looked at the rear standard... which hadn't caught my eye before bidding (and now feeling pretty stupid). This looks to me like someone's hack/butcher job to reassemble parts into a standard, but since I'm not familiar with the history of all Sinar models I thought I'd ask.

Is this an old C (without geared swing/tilt control???) or, as I suspect, a bad job of "repair" trying to get passed off as the real deal?

[Pete Roody]

The bearer you have is a real Sinar product. I don't recall the exact name for it. Although a 'C' camera would have a 'P' rear bearer with an 'F' bearer at the front. This is not a 'P' bearer.

[Drew Wiley]

It was an oddball camera indeed offered once by Sinar. Saw it in some old literature I
have stashed somewhere. Not a true "C" but a bare-bones equivalent sometimes sold to people doing things like copying paintings and so forth, where the back would remain relatively rigid.

[Armin Seeholzer]

Maybe this is the special one for the copy Sinar with a fixed top, it is not the normal P so I would send it back!

Cheers Armin

[Darryl Baird]

I'm still in shock that SINAR would sell any standard that has no external control over swing/tilt. Yes, it is going back, but the curiosity was just too much. :confused:

thanks all

[erie patsellis]

Darryl, as alluded to previously, it was designed for repro work, I think the camera was referred to as a Sinar S, If my documentation is correct, it's part number is 433.48.

[rdenney]

I don't see 433.48 in my copy of Sinar Code (date unknown), so it must predate that. It's also not in my 2000/2001 System Catalouge, which is newer than my copy of the Code. All my printed materials show black components, and this one is chrome, so it would be older in any case.

I also have a photocopy (date unknown, though apparently the same as my copy of the Code) of the Sinar brochure, The Camera, and it shows a C2 model in addition to a P2 model. The rear standards are identical in image, words, and part numbers.

I have a later brochure that shows the Sinar X, which was a cheaper version of the P. Judging from the part numbers, the rear standard X had a fixed carrier, ala the F, but the same geared movements as the P. The X carrier apparently could not be replaced on the bearer to change formats as with the P.

It is definitely not the normal P, C, or X rear standard.

This is nothing unusual. There is a "Norma" on that auction site right now that has a Norma multipurpose standard being used as a rear standard, instead of the proper rear standard. In an earlier ad for the same camera, the seller noted that it was difficult to keep the rear standard from slipping. I bet! And I bought a standard described as an F2 front standard from a reputable camera store, only to find that it was an F rear standard. They replaced that one with an F front standard that had an F1 locking screw for the rise lock, which didn't fit the locking mechanism and had deformed it. I ended up with my money back. Extra care is required when buying used Sinar stuff, it would seem--their modularity can sometimes work against them.

Rick "finding that many sellers, even reputable camera stores, don't know their Sinar products well" Denney

[erie patsellis]

Rick,
I remember seeing mention of the Sinar S in passing in one of the older brochures or catalogs. The only solid reference I have is in the Sinar Service manuals, section 104 is for the Sinar S Bearer, bearing the above part number.

[Darryl Baird]

<SNIP-OLA> Extra care is required when buying used Sinar stuff, it would seem--their modularity can sometimes work against them.

Rick "finding that many sellers, even reputable camera stores, don't know their Sinar products well" Denney

Yes, I'm finding that as well, I also suspect a few less-than-honorable individuals may be exploiting this and cobbling pieces together and selling "camera kits" to dealers or on ebay... mine was from a "trusted" source which I have good dealings with previously. I have eyes, so I'm partially to blame for poor scrutiny, BUT really...

oh well.... the rear focus knob was totally stripped, and the F front standard lock was busted too.. shoddy, shoddy, shoddy...

[rdenney]

Yes, I'm finding that as well, I also suspect a few less-than-honorable individuals may be exploiting this and cobbling pieces together and selling "camera kits" to dealers or on ebay... mine was from a "trusted" source which I have good dealings with previously. I have eyes, so I'm partially to blame for poor scrutiny, BUT really...

oh well.... the rear focus knob was totally stripped, and the F front standard lock was busted too.. shoddy, shoddy, shoddy...

I understand the eyes thing. I bought an "F2 front standard" that turned out to be an F rear standard. The picture was correct, too. I was just seeing in mirror image that day for some reason. Dumb. But I did get my money back on that one.

And I agree that people are cobbling together bits without really knowing what bits are needed. One of the standards I returned lacked the plastic piece on the rail locking screw, which would have allowed the screw to dig into and ruin the rail.

Both of these were from a reputable dealer, and they would have known they had a problem if they had just tried to put the stuff together to make a camera. But they refunded everything included shipping, and even sent me a couple of very nice Minolta-branded cable releases for my trouble, so I really think no less of them.

And then there was the Sinar tilt head listed here "for parts" that I bought with the intention of replacing the damaged parts. The base casting was bent to the point that the camera listen about 8 degrees to starboard, and the bushings for the tripod mount weren't the correct parts for that casting and it couldn't be tightened without binding up. Clearly it was put together from leftover pieces of several different vintages, based on the differences in parts for various versions noted in the service manuals. But I bought it for parts so I have no real complaint, even though the chances of finding replacement parts for cheaper than a decent used tilt head are negative. When I get a proper head, maybe this will provide a part I need in the future. Maybe not.

Then there was the Vario roll film holder that was advertised as a later (and better) Zoom model. The price was acceptable for a Vario, so I kept it even though a bit disappointed. But the seller must have known that it didn't say Zoom on it like every picture of one he was likely to have seen.

But those experiences have made me much more aware of the different versions and issues with buying the bits and pieces. I do really like the Sinar stuff, but most of it has seen heavy use and has to be bought carefully. The service manuals are helpful for one buying Sinar stuff, especially one piece at a time.

Rick "thinking of a Johnny Cash song" Denney