where do you purchase very small screws????

[Frank_E]

Today I received my $29 large format lens and was pleasantly surprised.

Backing up a little. I am new to LF photography (as you can see from my post count). Have acquired a Nagaoka 4x5 field camera which was fitted with a 135mm Graflex Optar lens. I read that the coverage of this lens doesn’t leave much room for movements. Also thought it would be interesting to see if I can acquire another reasonably priced LF lens to experiment with and was successful with this ebay bid:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140349176239&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_607wt_1167

It is an ILEX Paragon Anstigmat f4.5 165mm/6.5” in an ILEX no.3 Universal shutter.

The lens looks nice and clean and the shutter and iris work well.

My challenge is that the lens does not have the traditional “retaining ring” mounting arrangement. There are 3 very small threaded holes in the back of the lens which appear to be the mechanism used for mounting the lens. The holes are about 1mm in diameter. I have no idea what the thread would be.

Where does one find small screws like this. It is definitely not a Home Deport purchase….

Thanks

[Robert Hughes]

Check with jewelry suppliers, watch shops, scientific instrumentation suppliers... or maybe a camera shop. Who knows, you might even find someone there who remembers what a film camera is!

[Jim Rice]

Hardware store.

[Len Middleton]

Frank,

Are you saying there is no threaded section on the back of the shutter barrel for a retaining ring? I expect that your Optar would have a retaining ring that you could see as an example.

If would expect to hold that sort of weight mounted on the front of the lensboard, you would either need a retaining ring or some sort of clamping arrangement that would hold onto the shutter barrel.

Mounting it with small 1mm diameter screws would certainly leave me feeling a little anxious.

But to answer your question, I have got some small screws from Brofasco.

Good luck,

Len

[Frank_E]

Len,
I have compared the rear of the two lenses and they are quite different.
The Optar has the retaining ring traditional mounting arrangment.

The ILEX has no such retaining ring. The real element screws into the shutter like other lenses but the only evidence there is as to how the lens might have been attached to whatever it came off of (I doubt it was an LF camera) are those three small screw holes. I think it should be somewhat (but not very) strong if mounted this way. The lens is heavy so you wouldn't want to go backpacking with that setup.

There is one other possible way the lens might have been mounted. In the location where you normally find the threaded barrel on which the retaining ring would go, there is a 6mm high collar. The rear element is threaded into this collar. It is possible there was another collar which could be tightened around this first collar that was used for mounting the lens. If worst comes to worst, one could make a lensboard with an appropriately sized hole that this collar would fit through and then epoxy the shutter into this arrangement. Obviously removing it would be a challenge....

[Gem Singer]

Sounds like you are missing the mounting flange.

[Frank_E]

It was an "as is" purchase, and for $29 I don't have much to complain about.

Let me ask the obvious question, where might one acquire the flange (I know that is a stretch).

[Jim Noel]

Sounds like you are missing the mounting flange.

I agree.
You can make a lens board from modelers plywood and drill a hole in it which will just allow the shutter barrel to screw into it. This is faster and cheaper than looking for a retaining ring. If you are afraid hte lens will fal lout of the board, tack it ina couple of places with Super Glue.

Jim

[rfesk]

Look up SMALL PARTS, INC. on a search engine. They have the largest variety of screws anywhere I have found.

[Len Middleton]

Frank,

I have seen some shutters used on oscilloscope cameras that did not have a threaded section on the shutter barrel, and I believed they were clamped in place.

You might be able to fabricate something with a couple of right angle brackets mounted onto the back of the lensboard and use a hose clamp around the rear shutter barrel (where it typically is threaded) to hold it there. If you are particularly clever you might even bend the right angle brackets over into a "U" section to ensure the hose clamp does not slide off. Oh, and paint it all flat black.

Sorry but given I am heading out the door, it is the most creative thing I can think of at this time.

Good luck,

Len

[Frank_E]

Len,
considering the fact that the writing on the front of the lens says

ILEX Oscillo-Paragon leads me to assume that it was an Oscilloscope lens
and has the arrangement you describe

thanks (to all) for the advice

[rdenney]

You might be able to fabricate something with a couple of right angle brackets mounted onto the back of the lensboard and use a hose clamp around the rear shutter barrel (where it typically is threaded) to hold it there. If you are particularly clever you might even bend the right angle brackets over into a "U" section to ensure the hose clamp does not slide off. Oh, and paint it all flat black.

I did exactly that with an Ilex #4 shutter for which I did not have a mounting flange, except that I used black photo tape instead of black paint. It worked in a Cambo board for many years, and on a 4x4 Calumet board before that. When I moved that lens to a Sinar board recently, I bought the correct mounting flange from S.K. Grimes and used it as a retaining ring. Both methods worked fine. I didn't have the Internet in the old days to find services like those now offered by Steve Grimes's disciples. But it worked.

Rick "if it works and doesn't break anything, it's right" Denney

[Bob Salomon]

Microtools should have the screws that you need and may have a flange. We also recently sold an assortment of flanges, up to 120mm, to KEH so you might check with them as well.

[Len Middleton]

Frank,

The shutter might have been used for an oscilloscope camera, but at 165mm I doubt that the lens was. Typically the lenses are only about 75mm (3"). That is about all you need for a polaroid back when you can put it that close and want to keep the whole assembly relatively cpompact.

With that being the case, I would want to check the aperature scale to ensure it is right (original scale, or revised scale?), otherwise your exposures will be a little more than a stop underexposed.

Hope that helps,

Len

[Yo' Vinny]

I used these folks before...they make small fasteners used in radio control models:

http://www.rtlfasteners.com/

- Vince

[RichSBV]

There is one other possible way the lens might have been mounted. In the location where you normally find the threaded barrel on which the retaining ring would go, there is a 6mm high collar. The rear element is threaded into this collar. It is possible there was another collar which could be tightened around this first collar that was used for mounting the lens. If worst comes to worst, one could make a lensboard with an appropriately sized hole that this collar would fit through and then epoxy the shutter into this arrangement. Obviously removing it would be a challenge....

This description along with the 3 screw holes makes it sound like the 'collar' is the flange screwed on all the way to the shutter. Are the 3 screw holes in a ring very close to the 6mm collar? If so, it might actually be the flange as they usually do have 3 small screw holes in them. Without a picture, no way to tell.

Just a thought as I was reading...

[archer]

Try McMaster Carr and search screws. I believe they have over 10K different sizes and types.
archer

[johnschlicher]

I use a wide rubber washer that is quit a bit smaller the then the back of the barrel--

So you really have to stretch it--I have an older 8 1/4" dagor in a compound shutter that I don't have a flange for.--done this for four years--it's on there pretty tight--

[r_a_feldman]

For small screws, look at a hobby shop that has model railroad supplies. If there is not one near you, try Walthers (www.walthers.com)

[Frank_E]

to further illustrate what I am dealing with I have attached a macro shot which shows the back of the shutter

you can see the flange into which the rear element screws. The rear element has been removed but you can see the threads, used to screw it in

in this shot you can also see one of the three small screw holes (about 1mm in diameter) which I referred to

[Len Middleton]

Frank,

Thanks the photo really helps.

As you have seen on your Optar, the section of the shuuter barrel that has an internal thread to take the rear lens section, is typically threaded externally to thread a retaining ring onto.

Yours looks smooth with no external thread, which is that I have seen with oscilloscope lens shutters. In those applications, the shutter was held in place with a clamp and certainly there are a number of suggestions here on how to fix that.

I do not know why they clamped them in on oscilloscope cameras rather than thread them in (would manufacturing costs be that different?), unless maybe the clamping also allowecd them to do a fine focus prior to tightening the lens in place...

Now you need to take a look at the aperature scale...

Good luck,

Len

[pocketfulladoubles]

Go to http://www.smallparts.com/ They're my first and usually only stop.

[pablo batt]

you will need to find a really small shop

[Robert A. Zeichner]

Check here.

[John Cahill]

Surplus Shed, near Allentown, PA is offering bags of photo-type little screws taken from Wollensaks, binocs, other optical apparatus. Google it.

[Vick Vickery]

Thats a strange shutter setup that I haven't seen before, and I have several lenses on Ilex #3 shutters. Looking at it, I think I would tend to try a tight "O"-ring first, maybe with a couple of turns of black tape over it to make sure it stays in place...cut the hole in the lensboard tight, push the extended ring on the back of the shutter thru, place the "O"-ring on, put a couple of turns of tape around to keep the ring there and seal any possible light leaks around the hole.