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View Full Version : First 4x5 start up kit- Chamonix & Ektar.. advice if poss : ))



Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 08:21
HI everyone, im about to purchase my 1st large format 5x4 kit. After some research ive decided on a Chamonix (actually its been a dream to go 10x8 but i figure i should start small.. theres alot to learn!!!). Im also interested to use old Kodak Ektar lenses- 127 & 150, as im shooting colour portrait & some urban street work. What i am confused about it the mounting of these.. Chamonix sell their own carbon fiber lens boards (lighter so they say) or they are compatible with any Linhoff type board. Does this then mean; if i buy these lenses unmounted & purchase their board, i then have to have a proffesionally customised hole made for fitting?? Not sure how this all works :( :confused: Years ago i used to use spotmetering for b&w but for colour large format daylight work can anyone reccomend best light metering for the job.. ive been out of photography for some years! :)
And finally.. anyone have any experience of these lenses or this set up?? i heard that these lenses if in good shape are sharp & contrasty, but very interested in how they yeild colour? Ektars were produced back then for colour film tho in its infancy.
Thanks all :)
ps I believe the cham is somewhat designed on the Philips.. dream camera but somewhat hard to find : )

John Cahill
11-Oct-2009, 08:32
The Ektars were all advertised by Kodak as corrected for that new-fangled color film. They are really very decent lenses. Great bang for the buck!.

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 08:36
Thanks John, thats great to know- budget is always an issue here :) any advice on the mounting onto lensboards for the cham? Compared to other makes is the Ektar a real heavy one? i also considerd a g claron but was just interested in the oldies too..

wfwhitaker
11-Oct-2009, 08:44
..What i am confused about it the mounting of these.. Chamonix sell their own carbon fiber lens boards (lighter so they say) or they are compatible with any Linhoff type board. Does this then mean; if i buy these lenses unmounted & purchase their board, i then have to have a proffesionally customised hole made for fitting??...

If the lenses you choose are not already mounted on a Technika-type board, you will need to have them remounted. Generic lensboards are available on the market for less than what a Chamonix lensboard will cost. Weight isn't really an issue since they're all pretty lightweight. If your lens requires a different size hole than what is readily available (Copal 0, 1, or 3), you'll need to have someone bore the proper size hole to mount the lens. SK Grimes (http://skgrimes.com/) is usually the first resource recommended, although there are others. There is a list of Copal hole sizes on their site, so you should be able to determine beforehand what you need.

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 08:51
Great Will and thanks- super helpfull :)

Photojeep
11-Oct-2009, 09:30
Melissa,
When you buy your lens, take note of what shutter it comes mounted to. This will tell you what size hole is necessary to mount your lens. Then buy a lens board with that sized hole and mount your lens to the board.

Best,
Randy

rugenius
11-Oct-2009, 10:11
Ditto what WFWhitaker said...
Use Linhof Technica style board.
Shen Hao, Wista, Linhof, numerous other compatible lens boards.

You still need to ensure the lensboard you get is sized and drilled according to what you need.
Not all holes are centered.
Also, some boards have a raised ring that can interfere with the shutter controls.
Lastly, when it's all said and done, make sure it's light tight.

jbenedict
11-Oct-2009, 10:13
Im also interested to use old Kodak Ektar lenses- 127 & 150, as im shooting colour portrait & some urban street work.

I have used the 127 Ektar with color film and it works very well. However, they were originally designed to be used as a standard lens for the 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 camera so they pretty much just cover 4x5 shooting straight on. If you use more tha an inch or so rise/shift, it will have a hard time covering the corners. This may not be a concern of yours because you are planning portraits so hopefully won't have to deal with perspective corrections.

I don't have any experience with the 152 Ektar but I would expect the color performance to be similar to the 127.

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 17:09
Ditto what WFWhitaker said...
Use Linhof Technica style board.
Shen Hao, Wista, Linhof, numerous other compatible lens boards.

You still need to ensure the lensboard you get is sized and drilled according to what you need.
Not all holes are centered.
Also, some boards have a raised ring that can interfere with the shutter controls.
Lastly, when it's all said and done, make sure it's light tight.
Thanks so much for all the imput everyone this forum is just excellent!
Ok as this is my first forray into LF im a little reticent about doing this myslef even tho it seems a pretty straightforward procedure. Where i live here in Perth Australia there doesnt seem to much in the way of people knowledgable in this. I was considering buying the lens of choice from US ebay for ex. and getting it posted to SK grimes- get them to fit (im presuming they can supply a board) then send back to me... are people doing this? Hell i mean the camera is coming from China anyhow :o Because i will just get extremely annoyed if i dont get it right..and if it aint light tight :eek:

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 17:26
I have used the 127 Ektar with color film and it works very well. However, they were originally designed to be used as a standard lens for the 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 camera so they pretty much just cover 4x5 shooting straight on. If you use more tha an inch or so rise/shift, it will have a hard time covering the corners. This may not be a concern of yours because you are planning portraits so hopefully won't have to deal with perspective corrections.

I don't have any experience with the 152 Ektar but I would expect the color performance to be similar to the 127.
Thanks J, thats v. usefull info. Ok- no i dont think i will be having to correct perspective to that degree.. i dont think so at this point anyhow. BUt i would like to make portraits that get a fair amount of surrounding environment.. thought 127 would be a fairly moderate wide. Would that be similar to say 60mm shooting 6x7?
The 150 & 127 seemed like good versatile starting points. Im inspired by many types of work but particularly Sternfelds 'American Prospects' (tho shot 8x10 & very wide), & Alec Soths' 'Sleeping by the Mississippi'.

Thanks again everyone for your input & advice. :)

rugenius
11-Oct-2009, 17:43
My wife and I bought a "barely" used Chamonix 045N just over a month ago.
Love the camera, still purchasing gear.
If you are investigating lenses you may find these sites very helpful:

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/
http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/

Kirk Fry
11-Oct-2009, 18:29
Hole saws are very useful in boring holes in lens boards. You can almost always find one that is the correct size. KFry

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 19:08
Thanks guys ,& Rug the link re lenses is very infomative :)

Filmnut
11-Oct-2009, 19:18
I too, have shot a lot of colour film with a 127 Ektar, and it has worked very well. I don't have the 152, but I do have the Ektar 203, and it is also a really great lens with room for movements. The 127 I find is a nice moderate wide on 4X5.
In the 65 range, I think on 6X6.
Condition is the key when buying these older lenses.
Keith

Melissa
11-Oct-2009, 22:39
Brilliant Keith thats just what i wanted- moderate wide. Ideally ill have the slightly longer too. :)

Patrick Dixon
12-Oct-2009, 02:19
This is my first LF photo, shot through an Ektar 127/f4.7 earlier this year

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/3527995465_03b91ef627.jpg

It's a nice small lens, and I really like the focal length, but the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't take screw-in filters - it takes those unfathomable kodak slip on things, that are a) never available outside the US and b) unclear in what you need to adapt them to a screw filter.

However, these lenses are cheap enough that you could araldite a screw adapter to the front, but I just can't bring myself to do something so non-reversible to it.

You will almost certainly need copal 0 sized boards (holes actually) for 127 & 152mm lenses.

Steve Hamley
12-Oct-2009, 06:27
Melissa,

My 2 cents; I'd forego the older Ektar and spring for a nice used Schneider or Rodenstock 135mm/150mm in a modern Copal shutter from a reputable dealer (Jeff Wheeler at Quality Camera or Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo Exchange). When you're starting out, you don't need to be dealing with non-standard lens board holes, non-standard filters, potentially balky shutters, flanges versus retaining rings, and hazy glass.

I have lots of vintage lenses and enjoy them very much, but more than half need the glass cleaned, and most could use a shutter service. Then add the cost of a filter adapter and the always-missing lens caps. So add $250 - 350 to the cost of your single-coated vintage lens, and you're way above what a decent used modern lens will be and you'll never get your money out of it if you ever sell it. The best bang for your buck will be a lightly used modern lens from a reputable dealer.

BTW, Jeff at QC has bought out some studios and has lots of 210mm Fujis, Schneiders, and Rodenstocks at very good prices.

Cheers, Steve

jbenedict
12-Oct-2009, 08:34
It's a nice small lens, and I really like the focal length, but the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't take screw-in filters - it takes those unfathomable kodak slip on things, that are a) never available outside the US and b) unclear in what you need to adapt them to a screw filter.


Lee makes a clip-on gel holder which is very reasonably priced. They come in kits for B&W and color. I think about $75. They will fit lenses from very small to about 67mm.

Melissa
12-Oct-2009, 17:29
This is my first LF photo, shot through an Ektar 127/f4.7 earlier this year

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/3527995465_03b91ef627.jpg

It's a nice small lens, and I really like the focal length, but the biggest problem with it is that it doesn't take screw-in filters - it takes those unfathomable kodak slip on things, that are a) never available outside the US and b) unclear in what you need to adapt them to a screw filter.

However, these lenses are cheap enough that you could araldite a screw adapter to the front, but I just can't bring myself to do something so non-reversible to it.

You will almost certainly need copal 0 sized boards (holes actually) for 127 & 152mm lenses.

Patrick thanks for sharing, so pretty :) Really great to be able to see exactly how wide- im happy with that, and the cons.. dont think i could do the 'non-reversible' either :o

Melissa
12-Oct-2009, 17:34
Melissa,

My 2 cents; I'd forego the older Ektar and spring for a nice used Schneider or Rodenstock 135mm/150mm in a modern Copal shutter from a reputable dealer (Jeff Wheeler at Quality Camera or Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo Exchange). When you're starting out, you don't need to be dealing with non-standard lens board holes, non-standard filters, potentially balky shutters, flanges versus retaining rings, and hazy glass.


Steve your 2 cents- v. handy! This forum is invaluable for newbies. Yes- it had totally occured to me regarding balky shutters etc, & actually my first idea was a g claron (heard good things & light).. i will look into this for sure & check out those places. What i am interested in tho is how old lenses render colour compared to new.. just for effect etc. any thoughts??
Big thanks to everyone :)

venchka
13-Oct-2009, 07:22
Welcome Melissa! I own the Ektar 127 and love it. It came on a 4x5 Speed Graphic. I don't have a similar lens in 6x7, but 127mm is similar (not exact, but close) to 35mm lens on 35mm film. I liked the focal length so much that I bought a 125mm Fujinon-W for my field camera. BTW, my 127mm Ektar mounted in a Kodak Supermatic (X) shutter is 1 or 2 silly millimeters larger than a standard Copal #0 hole. I have to use sandpaper to enlarge the hole on my 0 boards.

150mm seems awfully close to 127mm and therefore somewhat redundant. Staying with the Ektar theme, the 203mm Ektar is a gem. Small. Light. Sharp wide open. Not expensive.

I would suggest more research as well on lens boards. Apparently Linhof changed the size of the Technika boards in the past. I own a Linhof Technika V camera and the boards are smaller than a friend's Shen Hao "Technika" boards.

Good luck!

pocketfulladoubles
13-Oct-2009, 12:46
Melissa, I went ahead and just ordered the Chamonix boards since I didn't know what I was doing. They are very nice, study, lightweight, and the inside was lined with velvet. Mounting the lens was very simple with the right spanner. However, you don't need to spend the $60 per board or whatever it is. The right size mounting hole in the right spot of the right sized board will do just the same for less money, and the weight difference is going to be negligible.

aduncanson
13-Oct-2009, 16:57
People do love their Ektars - to the point that one will probably cost you more than a 135mm convertible Schneider Symmar of similar or newer vintage, possibly even more than a multicoated 135mm Symmar-S. In terms of coverage alone, the Symmars are usable for more purposes than the 127 Ektar. You are buying a camera with a fair amount of movements. The 127mm Ektar will let you use very little of them.

You may consider also the 125mm Fuji W or, if money is not an issue, a 120 Schneider Super-Symmar HM or the current 120mm Apo Symmar-L, or for the ultimate moderate wide angle for 4x5, a 110mm Super-Symmar XL.

I agree that 150mm is quite close to 127 in focal length, and would suggest 180mm or longer as your next length up. The 190mm/4.5 or 203mm/7.7 Ektars are very different in size and weight, but both are good options; as are any of the modern 180mm and 210mm lenses available. (Not 180mm telephotos like the Tele-Xenar or Tele-Arton however, they won't remotely cover 4x5.)

GPS
14-Oct-2009, 06:27
HI everyone, im about to purchase my 1st large format 5x4 kit. After some research ive decided on a Chamonix (actually its been a dream to go 10x8 but i figure i should start small.. theres alot to learn!!!). Im also interested to use old Kodak Ektar lenses- 127 & 150, as im shooting colour portrait & some urban street work.
...

Hopefully by now you have read the important announcement on the Chamonix camera site about the focusing error on their 45N-1 cameras. Important for you as you intend to use the camera for portraits... Just so that you know.

Melissa
14-Oct-2009, 08:27
I cant thank all of you enough- the information was more than i expected & ive learnt alot.. i just got a copy of Steve Simmons 'Using the View Camera'.. one never knows what one might glean!
Now- better check on the cham website about this focusing issue..:o

Melissa
14-Oct-2009, 08:29
I would suggest more research as well on lens boards. Apparently Linhof changed the size of the Technika boards in the past. I own a Linhof Technika V camera and the boards are smaller than a friend's Shen Hao "Technika" boards.

Good luck!

Thanks for this!

Lachlan 717
14-Oct-2009, 15:33
I own a Linhof Technika V camera and the boards are smaller than a friend's Shen Hao "Technika" boards.

I have found that the last 2 Technika-style boards that I have purchased were about 1mm too long (i.e. top to bottom).

As these are made from Aluminium, a quick lick with a double cut file has them fitting snuggly in no time.

On a similar note, you don't need to send these boards off to Grimes to get your lens fitted. The file that I refer to above is a "half round" one, so it quickly, easily and accurately resizes holes to suit (I have mounted non-flanged Brass lenses in this way. As the brass is significantly harder than the Aluminium, the lens self-taps into the board. I wouldn't recommend this for large/heavy lenses, but it works well for the smaller ones).

I also think that a file will cost you significantly less than sending something to Grimes.

Lachlan.