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View Full Version : QUICKLY... How Much Should I Pay For a M- 210mm Graphic Kowa??



Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 12:35
As per the title...

This one is coated and mounted in a late all black Copal shutter. I'm looking for a lens to cover 5x12.

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 15:16
Not to appear impatient but I'm ready to pull the trigger on one. Anyone know if $595 is too much??

rob
10-Oct-2009, 15:20
In barrel it's usually sold for ~$150. I bought one in barrel for $120. A new copal #1 is ~$300, total ~$450.

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 15:35
Thank you, Rob. So $595 is a bit much to pay then...

Nathan Potter
10-Oct-2009, 16:30
400.00 max in this market, and just work up from there if you have to.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Colin Graham
10-Oct-2009, 16:37
Does the kowa screw directly into a copal?

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 16:55
Does the kowa screw directly into a copal?

According to what I've read, yes... a #1.

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 16:57
Thank you, Nathan / Rob. Anyone know where I can find one for a fair price?

BTW, I'm not STUCK on getting one of these. I just want something in a reliable shutter that will cover 5x12 with a bit of wiggle room and be sharp all the way to the corners at 8x enlargement. And I don't want it to weigh as much as a boat anchor. I suppose I'm a bit picky too.

I can't afford a 210 SS XL... and other options can be difficult to find for a reasonable price. I've found a couple of SS HM's but they're fairly heavy at 1500+ grams.

I suppose #1 on my list would have to be a Apo Sironar-W but they're very hard to find.

gary alessi
10-Oct-2009, 17:20
I am wondering if the 210 kowa will cover 5x12/...what is the diagonal /... the kowa has a 380mm ic ...it might just...but a computar will do you better.........a 210 kowa sold for 600.00 on this forum 6 monthes ago.... i have a 210 kowa for sale right now on this forum for 535.00........

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 17:39
I don't remember... only that it covers 5x12. Aren't the Computar/Kyvytar/Kowa all the same lens under different brand names? Or am I I kunfyoozed again?

Mike1234
10-Oct-2009, 17:45
So is $400 or $500 or $600 the going rate for a really nice one? The one I found for $595 is claimed to be M- in a late all black Copal and with flawless glass.

Kirk Fry
10-Oct-2009, 20:34
I bought one for $75 in barrel and screwed it directly into the shutter from my 210 Sironon that had a badly separated front lens. The glass was not perfect but as they say it is unlikely to effect the picture....... Works fine..... KFry

sanking
10-Oct-2009, 22:45
Aren't the Computar/Kyvytar/Kowa all the same lens under different brand names? Or am I I kunfyoozed again?

Short answer to your question is no. Computar/Kyvytar are the same, Kowa Graphic is not except in a few exceptional cases.

For longer answer do a search of the archives.


Sandy King

Mike1234
11-Oct-2009, 07:39
Thank you, Kirk.

Thank you, Sandy.

Joseph O'Neil
11-Oct-2009, 09:22
Hi Mike;
For what it is worth, the 210mm size is argueably the most common size you will find for sale used here or on flea-bay.

Granted not all of them will cover much more than 4x5 or 5x7, but I also see more good deals and lenses available right now for sale that at any time in the past. IMO, the economy is taking it's toll on people, and good or bad, that is working into deals for buyers right now.

joe

Mike1234
11-Oct-2009, 09:45
Joseph... yes, the economy is really driving prices down at the moment. I have many lenses listed for sale here and on the LFPI site right now at bargain basement prices and they're moving very slowly. I agree that it's definitely a "buyers' market" right now. Later, when the economy recovers (or rather shows the appearance of recovery) and inflation begins to ramp up shooting prices through the roof, many will look back at this moment in time and ask themselves, "Why the heck didn't I buy what I wanted back THEN?!"

I'll keep looking for a 210mm Kowa Graphic. If they're fairly common then surely a more reasonably priced one will show up.

Pete Roody
11-Oct-2009, 13:58
Mike...It might be a buyers market but what gives you the right to screw with someones sale with a thinly disguised thread. Gary posts a lens for sale (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=54510) and you post to debate the worth of a near identical lens in a discussion forum. Why not wait until he has a chance to sell? I can answer that for you. It is pretty obvious.

Mike1234
11-Oct-2009, 15:47
Mike...It might be a buyers market but what gives you the right to screw with someones sale with a thinly disguised thread. Gary posts a lens for sale (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=54510) and you post to debate the worth of a near identical lens in a discussion forum. Why not wait until he has a chance to sell? I can answer that for you. It is pretty obvious.

What are you talking about, Pete? I'm doing no such thing. If you look at my threads you'll see that I've been searching for a 210 that will cover 5x12 for some time now. I asked because I found a Kowa 210 for $595 and I wanted to avoid overpaying since I know nothing about them. Others have suggested I pay no more than ~$400 for one. I'm just responding to those comments. My comment about it being a buyers market is expressed as a generality except where I comment on my sales and no one else's.

BTW Pete, what gives you the right to suggest I gag my posts over a subject I'm perfectly entitled to discuss? This thread has nothing to do with anyone or anything other than me gaining information I need. If you can't comment positively here then please don't comment at all.

EDIT: My apologies to you, Gary Alessi, if you were in any way offended. I did start this thread not knowing you had a 210 Kowa for sale. And again, I've been inquiring about 210's to cover 5x12 for quite a while now. I'm not trying to affect your sale in any way and I resent Pete for suggesting that is some hidden motive on my part. For your edification, here is the lens I was inquiring about... http://www.georgeury.com/cgi-bin/list.pl?listid=13 . Search for "210/9 Graphic-Kowa". It's priced at $595 just as I said.

johnschlicher
11-Oct-2009, 17:11
Mike...It might be a buyers market but what gives you the right to screw with someones sale with a thinly disguised thread. Gary posts a lens for sale (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=54510) and you post to debate the worth of a near identical lens in a discussion forum. Why not wait until he has a chance to sell? I can answer that for you. It is pretty obvious.

Pete I think your way off base here---I don't think imho Mike was not trying to undercut anyone's sales. He has stated over and over he's trying to sell his gear for a another camera.---There's nothing wrong asking the forum the current market value of a lens

Pete Roody
11-Oct-2009, 17:23
Mike,

Gary's for sale ad was posted right after (2nd after) a bunch of yours. I guess you don't watch the fs posts closely.

I don't know Gary and he had nothing to do with my post.

I am not trying to "gag" your thread. I don't think there should be any rules enacted nor is any censorship needed. But you did create a post that questioned how much a certain type of lens should sell for. That lens type was being offered for sale here. Your thread was poorly timed. As a courtesy you could have held back. You didn't. You were practicing a form of "price policing" imho. I have a right to my opinion and I stand by what I said.

Mike1234
11-Oct-2009, 17:31
Mike,

Gary's for sale ad was posted right after (2nd after) a bunch of yours. I guess you don't watch the fs posts closely.

I don't know Gary and he had nothing to do with my post.

I am not trying to "gag" your thread. I don't think there should be any rules enacted nor is any censorship needed. But you did create a post that questioned how much a certain type of lens should sell for. That lens type was being offered for sale here. Your thread was poorly timed. As a courtesy you could have held back. You didn't. You were practicing a form of "price policing" imho. I have a right to my opinion and I stand by what I said.

Pete, I disagree that my thread was "poorly timed"... "unfortunately timed", perhaps. I saw the ad for the 210 Kowa on the site I listed above and since I wanted an expeditious answer to my question I started this thread immediately after finding it. It has nothing to do with "courtesy"... because, as I said before, I had no idea Gary was selling this exact lens. Had I known he was selling one then, yes, I would have waited.

I was practicing nothing, Pete, except for my right to ask a simple question. You, on the other hand, are very much in the wrong with your accusations. You're wrong, Pete... very very wrong and I resent your accusations. Furthermore, you're continuing your little tirade and making yourelf look bad. Not me. Did you even look at the link I posted to the lens I was asking about?!

And those FS posts of mine... were bumps. And no, I didn't see Gary's FS thread with the 210 Kowa. But I believe we've already covered that ground.

EDIT: And... I have never ONCE "policed" a FS listing. I invite you to look for yourself.

sanking
11-Oct-2009, 20:25
Back to the original question, I don't belive $595 is too much for a 210mm Kowa Graphic. It is a rather unique lens in that it has very big coverage for the size, and would be sharp all over the field of 5X12". There is nothing that comes close to its coverage for this focal length and size, except for a 210mm Computar which would cost you twice as much. If I had one I would definitely not sell it for much less than $600. One might as well hold on to it for better economic days than give it away.

That said, if you don't mind the size a 210mm Fujinon-W will also cover 5X12, and with an aperture of f/5.6 give you a much brighter image on the ground glass.

Sandy King

Mike1234
11-Oct-2009, 21:00
Thank you, Sandy. I've only seen a couple for sale and they're both priced above $500. If the Kowa is just as sharp to the corners as the Fujinon-W I would rather save the weight/bulk and opt for the slower Kowa.

It will hold up to 5x enlargements from 5x12 and remain sharp to the corners?

gary alessi
18-Oct-2009, 18:46
well ... i have taken no offense ....and i have lowered my kowa price a bit tonight.......just a heads up for those looking to buy one in a barrel, and slip it into a shutter.... at least 1/2 of the 210 kowas i have seen do not fit right into a shutter... one of the elements does not unscrew from the barrel......also a good 1/2 of the remaining ones i've seen have chemical haze on the interior of the rear element... so buyer beware... be sure the kowa barrel lens you are buying has both front and rear elements that UNSCREW... AND HAVE THE SELLER HOLD THE LENS UP TO A LIGHT SOURCE AND LOOK THROUGH IT... TO CHECK FOR HAZE AND FOG.... !!!! good luck... G

Copied21
23-Oct-2009, 04:08
I am wondering if the 210 kowa will cover 5x12/...what is the diagonal /... the kowa has a 380mm ic ...it might just...but a computar will do you better.........a 210 kowa sold for 600.00 on this forum 6 monthes ago.... i have a 210 kowa for sale right now on this forum for 535.00.


Regards

Copied

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Mike1234
25-Oct-2009, 23:57
Gary's latest price is just too tempting. I've offered to buy his. I don't care about a cosmetic flaw or two. :)