Which M Format?

[Donald Miller]

I realize that this is not large format but I have a question. During a recent burglary of my home my complete Bronica ETRS system (four lenses, three backs etc) was one of the items stolen. I am working with the insurance company on replacing some of these things. I have full replacement cost insurance.

Since Bronica is no longer selling new cameras, what camera would be a similar quality camera? It seems, from what I can determine, that the two main players are Mamiya and Hassleblad. Am I missing something here? Which would you opt for and would you go to the additional expense of a digital back in lieu of the film backs? What does the 22 MP back of the Mamiya have over the 22 MP 5D II that I already own?

Thanks for any information that you care to share.

Donald Miller

[bbjorkum]

Of course, Hasselblad has the very nice CFV II 16MP and CFV-39 backs that fit the V-series bodies. From what I'v read, even the CFV II 16MP back will give you better resolution and cleaner files than the Nikon D3X. And it's wonderful to work like in the old days with top of the range digital backs.

[dsphotog]

Hi Don,
Well, you already have an excellent digital camera, if you enjoy film shooting, then MF digital isn't required.
I have a Pentax 67II outfit, I like the format..... It makes great images, the main drawback is no interchangable backs.
I also have a Mamiya 645 Pro.... I don't use it as much.
If LF, or the 67 is unsuitable to do the job, like weddings then I use the Digital.
You might also look at the Mamiya 7, (big neg, very portable)
Camera choice really depends on what you are shooting.
Happy shooting!
David Silva
Modesto, Ca

[Ron Marshall]

I have the Mamiya 7, and I am very happy with the quality of the lenses.

Initially I found the rangefinder to be a pain, but now I love it.

There are great values on used Mamiya 7 bodies and lenses, but new it is pricey.

[Eric Woodbury]

Mamiya 7 works for most everything for me. 43mm, 80mm and sometimes the 150mm. Format is nice. I had a Hassie for years, but wouldn't go back. For when the M7 isn't right, I use the Pentax 67ii. Lot's of lenses to choose from, but it is a heavy brute.

[Oren Grad]

If you want to buy a new medium format SLR with interchangeable backs and lenses, the only remaining choices are Mamiya and Hasselblad. (You can still buy Rollei new, but with the collapse of Franke and Heidecke, production has ceased. Then again, it has probably ceased on V-series Hasselblad too.)

But it sounds as though this may be a good opportunity to reconsider what you want out of medium format, and with specific objectives in mind you can figure out the mix of used and new equipment that makes sense for you.

The question of adding a digital back is extremely complicated. In general, new medium format digital backs are frightfully expensive. Under ideal conditions they can deliver results beyond - sometimes far beyond - what any 35-style DSLR can, but they're much less versatile and more finicky in use than either medium format film or small format DSLRs. Don't even think about an MFDB without spending a good while following the discussions in the medium format digital sections of the Luminous Landscape and Getdpi forums.

[Richard Wasserman]

If you are looking at MF digital and depending on your budget, you might look at the new Leica S2. Seems very interesting to me.

[Frank Petronio]

Why not keep it simple and use vintage, funky 120 stuff, like older Zeiss folder and TLR Rolleiflexes? The Canon DSLR will already give you cold, clinically sharp photos, so why not shoot film for its soul?

MFDB - lol - if you can rationalize a current model one then never mind.

[Oren Grad]

Just for a reality check ("CS" designates leaf-shutter versions of the lenses):

Bodies:
S2 Camera Body - $22,995
S2-P Body with Sapphire LCD Cover Glass and Platinum Service Package - $27,995

Accessories:
Multi Function Handgrip S - $1,295
Battery Charger (spare/extra) - $399

Lenses:
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH - $4,495
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 - $6,495
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS - $7,495
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $6,495
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 CS - $7,495
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH - $5,295
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995

[Oren Grad]

Picked up a user-grade Rolleicord V for ~$150 recently myself - very high (picture taking fun)/cost ratio. :)

[Blair Ware]

or how about a Mamiya C330?
you can get them for almost nothing and they are a joy to use

[Steve V]

Of course, Hasselblad has the very nice CFV II 16MP and CFV-39 backs that fit the V-series bodies. From what I'v read, even the CFV II 16MP back will give you better resolution and cleaner files than the Nikon D3X. And it's wonderful to work like in the old days with top of the range digital backs.
********
With both Hasselblad and Phase constantly upping the "ante" on MFDB's and systems, there might be some downward pressure on the "entry level" DB's. With the intro of the CFV39, I suspect that some CFV and CFVII owners are looking to upgrade. I haven't seen a "flood" on the used market yet, but if CFVs start showing up for ~$5k then MF digital is getting "affordable".

Steve

[venchka]

Why not shop at KEH for exactly what was stolen? If you contact them personally, you could give them a list items you want. They will contact you when they have the items in stock.

www.keh.com

[Donald Miller]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts on this. My position on this is that the Bronica system I had, while in excellent condition, was pretty nearly depreciated out (purchased mid 80's) from the insurance companies standpoint. Since I have full replacement cost insurance (replacement of new items for items stolen), if I accept the insurance companies depreciated value or used replacement equipment then I end up with virtually nothing for the loss. For that reason I am tendering an estimate to them this week for as near as possible replacement kit from the remaining MF players.


As my memory serves me I had something around 8K invested in the Bronica. It looks like going with Mamiya 645 AF with lenses of the same focal length as my Bronica that it comes to near $17K today. I may just bank the money, concentrate on LF and DSLR, and forget medium format for now.

Donald Miller

[Gordon Moat]

I think the Mamiya 645 system today would be the closest to your older Bronica gear. You can still buy these with film backs. As far as a usable system, I think Mamiya quality is improved over what was available when your Bronica system was new.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Bob Salomon]

Phase One in the UK yesterday announced a new Mamiya 645DF system with leaf and focal plane shutter; Schneider lenses, synch speeds to 1/1600; shutter speeds to 1/4000 to 60 minutes and all kinds of custom mode settings.

You might want to check that out in the BJP. Supposed to be available at the end of the year.

[cjbroadbent]

If you are not shooting models with an assistant loading film backs, a twin lens Rolleiflex does a better job and lets you work with a clear head.

[Ash]

I'm inseparable from my Hasselblad 500C....


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-26a-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/Untitled-32a.jpg

[redrockcoulee]

********
With both Hasselblad and Phase constantly upping the "ante" on MFDB's and systems, there might be some downward pressure on the "entry level" DB's. With the intro of the CFV39, I suspect that some CFV and CFVII owners are looking to upgrade. I haven't seen a "flood" on the used market yet, but if CFVs start showing up for ~$5k then MF digital is getting "affordable".

Steve

there was a CFV back a month or go on GetDPIworkshops for 4 grand. i thought about it but then also thought about groceries, vet bills, utilities :)