Availability of 5x7 film

[r.e.]

Hi,

I'm thinking of purchasing a 5x7 camera. A couple of questions for those of you who use this format: can you get film easily (colour and black and white), and what do you think the prospects are for film availability over the next few years? In other words, is demand for the format reasonably healthy, or disintigrating :)?

Thanks.

[percepts]

I was looking at this the other day. I think for black and white there is plenty available.
Fuji make colour 5x7 for most of their films but it is not available in some markets due to there not being enough demand for importers to order it by the pallet. That means in the UK it is difficult but where you live may be different. Don't know about kodak colour.

[Ron Marshall]

Badger has Provia in color, and several B/W.

B+H has Porta 160 NC in color and several B/W.

[David Karp]

Freestyle has lots of 5x7 in B&W. No idea about color. I have been using Arista.Edu Ultra 200 in 5x7 and it is a really nice film. It is actually Fomapan 200.

[r.e.]

What do you think is going to happen down the road? Do you think that it is necessary to start loading up on the film in a freezer?

I'm asking because demand for large format film is weak to begin with, and I suspect that between 4x5, 8x10 and 5x7, the latter is a distant third in demand.

I'm trying to get a sense of whether 5x7 is going the way of the Great Auk, in which case buying a 5x7 camera might also mean stockpiling film.

One other question - are the labs that will process 4x5 happy to process 5x7, especially colour 5x7, as well?

Thanks.

[Ron Marshall]

I only shoot B/W in 5x7 but my color lab also does 5x7.

I think b/w will be around for many years in 5x7. With color I have no idea.

[Dave Aharonian]

I shoot primarily 5x7 b&w film, and I try to buy it in Canada whenever I can. BigCameraWorkshops always seems to have Ilford films,otherwise I tend to order it from Freestyle. I see no issues with 5x7 (or most other LF films) for the future. I tend to buy a few boxes at a time but I see no reason to stockpile it. In fact its now easier for me to get 5x7 film than it was a few years ago when I started shooting it. Stop worrying and get that 5x7 camera!

[Mike1234]

SIDE STEP... but his may interest the OP: I know some have cut and shot 5" B&W aerial film in cut film holders (Jim Galli for one) but has anyone shot the color neg aerial film in 5x7 or 5x12 holders?

[Andrew ren]

go get the camera and start shooting.

no worries.

we all part of it...

Andrew

[percepts]

What do you think is going to happen down the road? Do you think that it is necessary to start loading up on the film in a freezer?

I'm asking because demand for large format film is weak to begin with, and I suspect that between 4x5, 8x10 and 5x7, the latter is a distant third in demand.

I'm trying to get a sense of whether 5x7 is going the way of the Great Auk, in which case buying a 5x7 camera might also mean stockpiling film.

One other question - are the labs that will process 4x5 happy to process 5x7, especially colour 5x7, as well?

Thanks.

You can cut 8x10 film to 5x7. Obviously a little waste but if the film you want is only available in 8x10 you can still do it. There have been threads here about this before.

[Ole Tjugen]

I buy 13x18cm colour film from Germany - there is still a wider selection in 13x18cm than in 5x7".

You need to use 13x18cm film holders for this, though...

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Ole ! Please tell us about this supplier in Germany.

[ki6mf]

For B&W you can also contact Ilford for availability. In North America their distributors can advise on when 5x7 will be available. Also you can ask a retailer to order and the retailer usually can tell you when the next shipment will arrive. I believe on the Ilford web site they make provisions to order to direct and ship to a retail outlet. I have use this method to get 6X7 sheet film for HP5. 4x5 and 5x7 is almost always available at Calumet and Freestyle

[r.e.]

Thanks all, I have agreed to purchase a Linhof Kardan Bi 5x7. Now I have to decide on whether to go with 5x7 or 13x18 holders. If anyone has advice on this, I'd be obliged. One consideration is that the gentleman who is selling me the camera has 13x18 holders available.

A couple of specific questions, on the assumption that 5x7 shooters have already checked these issues out:

What emulsions - see Ole's comment - can be obtained in Europe but not in North America?

Is European pricing for 13x18, ex VAT, close to US pricing for 5x7, or is it significantly higher?

Can 13x18 film be purchased in the US?

Thanks.

[csant]

Now I have to decide on whether to go with 5x7 or 13x18 holders.

I have a 5x7, and I like having both 5x7 holders and 13x18 - for flexibility's sake. But I discover that what I really like better is 5x7, and I have been almost exclusively using that format. Having some 13x18 holders however gives me the choice - good thing is I don't have too many 13x18 holders…

Oh yeah, and Ole - we need to know more about your supplier!

[r.e.]

Oh yeah, and Ole - we need to know more about your supplier!

This is starting to sound like a discussion among crackheads :)

[Ole Tjugen]

Nordfoto - http://nordfoto.de has Fuji Provia 100F, Kodak E100G, EPP and EPY64T in 13x18cm.

[r.e.]

Well, I've now checked European and North American on-liine vendors, and it's clear that North American prices for 5x7 film are significantly less, which means 5x7 holders. There isn't a lot in colour film - Portra 160NC and Fuji Provia 100F - but that'll do. I'm surprised that European pricing for Ilford film isn't more competitive. However, Fotoimpex in Berlin does seem to have good prices on Adox/Efke and Fomapan, less expensive than in North America if I understood their catalogue properly.

[DolphinDan]

You can order VELVIA 100, 100F, and PROVIA 100F color 5x7 film from Japan:

http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=5x7&x=0&y=0

A little pricey but do-able.

Daniel

[cjbroadbent]

...Now I have to decide on whether to go with 5x7 or 13x18 holders ..... Can 13x18 film be purchased in the US?
You need both. I had to buy 5x7 holders for a job on New York. I've never seen 5x7 film in continental Europe; it only (chromes a Tmax) comes in 13x18.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I recently picked up 100 sheets of 5x7 Shanghai B&W, and it looks real nice so far in PMK Pyro + developer. I'm thinking about picking up some more, since I now have a 20% off coupon from the seller. It's definately an old-school emulsion formulation, they recommend it for portraiture.

[Mark J]

I thought it worth kicking this thread into life again, given that the title is relevant.
However I can launch another one if it's felt necessary.

My own interest currently is in Black & White film, but feel free to add comment about colour if anyone wants to.

After re-starting my interesting in using 5x7 after buying a big Durst enlarger, i started looking at film choices.
The choices are OK but rather restricted, and one or two I thought were possible turned out not to be ( eg. Ilford Delta 400 )

From what I have so far, the mainstream options look like :

Kodak TRI-X , TMX (2) and TMY(2) probably , but hard to find 5x7 size in the UK. Painfully expensive ...
Ilford Delta 100, FP4+ and HP5+ , for sure. Shame Delta 400 isn't even available via the ULF order.
Fomapan 100, 200 and 400. The 200 looks most interesting, so I have just bought a pack of that, hoping no holes/scratches !

What have I missed ?

[Tin Can]

Cut your own from X-Ray

[Mark J]

Hmmm yeh ... not sure i want to do either of those things...

[Tin Can]

Sooner or later

[Mark J]

:eek:

[Dugan]

Svema 100 is available...but it's a thin base film and there's a definite learning curve for exposure & development.
Shanghai is still available, also.

[paulbarden]

X-ray film has a distinct "ortho" look to it that many people - myself included - do not like: it's too "soft" and has a "waxy" look to the middle values. If I want the Ortho look, Wet Plate Collodion is much more appealing, looks wise.

[Mark J]

I hadn't heard of Svema 100, will read up on that, thanks.

[jnantz]

a friend used to tell me of sweet deals on Chinese film he used to get through a distributor / store on Facebook it was so affordable it was almost a sin not to buy it. It might have been
"lucky" film but Im not sure..

[paulbarden]

I have only recently (well, this year) tried working with the Fomapan 100 in 5x7 size, and I must admit, it's been pretty sweet stuff to use. It has a distinct look to it that I find appealing. It's quite distinct from - for example - FP4+. Yes, it's got really poor reciprocity characteristics, but I am rarely needing exposures more than a couple of seconds anyway.

Fomapan 100 rated at 50 ASA, developed with Thornton 2-Bath (https://flic.kr/p/2p8x3ge) @ 4.5 + 4.5 min.

Note that shops like Film Photography Project and CatLabs are repackaging Fomapan under their house brand names, and FPP may be packaging other brands as well. Does Lucky still exist?

[Barry Kirsten]

Shanghai GP3 b&w film is available in 5x7 size. I haven't used it myself but it seems to have a fair reputation and is cheap in price. https://www.etonephoto.com/en-au/products/shanghai-5x7-black-white-b-w-b-w-iso-100-sheet-film-25-sheets-09-2021-freshest

[Vaughan]

I'm in Australia, using Shanghai GP3 100 and Fomapan 100 and 400 in 5x7. Of the two I like Fomapan 100 and 400 better, but the Shanghai GP3 is similar in image quality. Ilford is readily available from CR Kennedy but the cost is almost double that of the others: I have no doubt that it is a better film and worth the money but am learning on the cheaper stuff first.

[John Layton]

Jeesh....now I'm starting to feel guilty and elitist by admitting that I'm using TMY!

But truth be told, I'm working through what might well be my final batch - as the pricing is now beyond the pale. And in the meantime...I find myself being extremely restrained and cautious in how I use these final sheets - often shooting onesies in situations/setups for which I'd typically make two (or even three) exposures. Not good!

So...I'll very likely go back to using FP4, which, thinking of my long love affair with this film souped in PMK awhile back - and that I've now returned to PMK after a bit of a hiatus...I think will work out just fine!

My challenge will be digging into those shadows...especially seeing as how I'm usually working well into the reciprocity curve - which is why I'd gone to TMY in the first place. (hmmm...maybe adding a wee pinch of Amidol would be just the ticket?)

[jnantz]

Does Lucky still exist?

not sure, I was never lucky enough (no pun intended!) to buy this affordable mystery-film.. and im not sure the brand other than it's country of origin. maybe it was Shanghai film I forgot about that one ...

[paulbarden]

Jeesh....now I'm starting to feel guilty and elitist by admitting that I'm using TMY!

But truth be told, I'm working through what might well be my final batch - as the pricing is now beyond the pale. And in the meantime...I find myself being extremely restrained and cautious in how I use these final sheets - often shooting onesies in situations/setups for which I'd typically make two (or even three) exposures. Not good!

So...I'll very likely go back to using FP4, which, thinking of my long love affair with this film souped in PMK awhile back - and that I've now returned to PMK after a bit of a hiatus...I think will work out just fine!

My challenge will be digging into those shadows...especially seeing as how I'm usually working well into the reciprocity curve - which is why I'd gone to TMY in the first place. (hmmm...maybe adding a wee pinch of Amidol would be just the ticket?)

I've found the combination of FP4 and PMK to be spectacular. I stopped buying TMY (and TMX) two years ago. It was simply too expensive and the benefits were not sufficient to justify the cost.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've found the combination of FP4 and PMK to be spectacular. I stopped buying TMY (and TMX) two years ago. It was simply too expensive and the benefits were not sufficient to justify the cost.

I always added a pinch of Amidol to my PMK, which makes it PMK+. About 1/3 to 1/2 stop shadow speed increase, not much, but often appreciated. I use a flat toothpick to measure out a "pinch". It does turn the PMK into all kinds of rainbow colors. Oh Wow Man. Pour it in ASAP

I too like 5x7 Foma which I order in big enough quantities to justify shipping from Germany. Winter months are the times to buy for me. Also stocked up on 5x7 Shanghai when it was cheaper

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52541424923_76b42042be_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2o3Ux7B)5x7 PlusX 2402 Aero D23 5x7 Norma 500mm Tele Xenar (https://flic.kr/p/2o3Ux7B) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Kodak Aerographic Five Inch Plus-X cut seven inches, to fit a 5x7 Lisco Holder. 5x7 Sinar Norma with my newly CLA'ed Schneider 500mm Tele Xenar at F22. Hasselblad 40mm Distagon Yellow Filter jammed inside the lenshood, it fits! D23 1:1 8x10 Unidrum on Uniroller. 5x7 Contact Print on Arista #2 RC Dektol 1:2 The Tele-Xenar is quite sharp up front as you can see. I'm liking this film for 5x7, but I can also cut it to 4x5 or even 9x12cm. Like the tonality you get with the Aerial emulsion. Tim Kelly Inspired Broncolor Balloon 90 degrees left, lighting the entire set. Main light Broncolor C171 Monolight Pulsoflex Softbox, one stop brighter than the fill, 45 left to the set. Just out of camera shot 45 right, is a foamcore freestanding panel for passive fill. Finally, the creme on the sundae, is Broncolor C70 Monolight with Snoot and Handmade Grid from an olde Broncolor Honeycomb. Selecting lighting a small portion of the background. Just because

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52611131693_9bac50f38e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oa4Nvt)5 inch 2402 PlusX Aerographic 5x7 Norma 500mm TeleXenar HC110 H (https://flic.kr/p/2oa4Nvt) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Under 50 cents a sheet. I shoot it just like Olde Plus-X. Processed in Unicolor Unidrum on Uniroller.

[Mark J]

Good work, nice results there.
I think the Foma 200 will be interesting to try as my 'slower' film. It's not that expensive in the UK, just paid about £75 for 50 sheets.
I was hoping for a different 400-speed option, but I think I'll stick with HP5+ now, I'll probably get a box of 25 soon.
I would like to have tried TMY-2 ( after reading a lot about Drew's enthusiasm for it ) but I can't see a price for 5x7 in the UK easily, and even a 50-sheet box of 4x5" TMY is now listed at £327.50
I've seen the usage of X-ray film & suchlike, but these look too quirky for me, only blue or green-sensitive and not so useful for outdoors work.

I've used PMK for years, but have been getting very interested in John W's WD2etc formulae, particularly the last one, WD2H , so I've been pulling together the components to mix up a batch of this. Sound like it works well with Foma 200 as well as the Ilford stuff.

[Leszek Vogt]

I got some Adox 100 (5x7) in my refridge, but haven't really used it yet. It suppose to be quite good.

[Drew Wiley]

I didn't like the amidol tweak to PMK - just too unpredictable. And being mainly a field photographer who backpacked to locations, I didn't have the luxury of taking duplicate shots or bracketing sheet film exposures. In that respect, TMY proved more economical than low-budget sheet films because it was reliable in terms of quality control and more versatile to use. FP4 was my idea of a budget option, provided I could work with the lower speed, and if the scene contrast wasn't off the map - but that's exactly what I often encounter - windy days and extreme scene contrast. Another default for sake of saving money is to shoot 120 roll film when I have only moderate sized enlargements in mind; and in 6x9 format it mimics that lovely longer proportion of
5X7.

[Hans Berkhout]

Re: those shadows. Try condenser as enlarger light source -if you haven't already.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I never found PMK+ to be unpredictable in actual use. At the time I was using my Olde Art Deco Kodak Visual Densitometer (uber accurate BTW), and I was nailing exposure and development. On big landscaping trips I never bracketed. One Shot Daniel. Although as a caveat I shot a dupe each time, to run in D76 1:1 as a comparison. Both sets of negs were exactly pretty much in the zone, so to speak. All was acting very predictably.

Now I will soon crack open a new set of bottles of PF's PMK. I have Amidol in good condition, so of course I intend to use it. My Assistant Friend has a PHd in Chemistry, says the rainbows indicate chemical changes. In reality the negs often benefited from the "Amidol Shot" in the PMK. When the exposure was right on the line, it made a positive difference in terms of shadow speed, although not by much. So I will use it again. If you are willing to use older film, there are good deals on 5x7/13x18cm around.

13x18cm I also buy, in Wintertime, from the German shoppes. Buy in quantity it's the cheapest way.

[Mark J]

Re: those shadows. Try condenser as enlarger light source -if you haven't already.

My understanding ( which I'm hoping to confirm once my Durst 138 is operating ) is that the highlight areas should show improvement in tone separation due to reduction of the callier effect from the narrower cones of light to each point in the negative. This is also noted as an advantage of condenser illumination in my copy of the Ilford book of photography. So, I'm a little surprised to hear you imply it will improve the shadows. Is this from personal experience ?

[Hans Berkhout]

My understanding ( which I'm hoping to confirm once my Durst 138 is operating ) is that the highlight areas should show improvement in tone separation due to reduction of the callier effect from the narrower cones of light to each point in the negative. This is also noted as an advantage of condenser illumination in my copy of the Ilford book of photography. So, I'm a little surprised to hear you imply it will improve the shadows. Is this from personal experience ?

I'm not implying anything. I'm suggesting to try something.

[Mark J]

Ok, that's fine. However the shadow areas on the neg are relatively transparent and don't scatter much, so the Callier effect there is low and probably won't show much change.
In any case I will have this running in early December, fingers crossed, though my results will be qualitative at best, because I can't run two enlargers in the small darkroom.

[Drew Wiley]

Ohhh ... but all those other headaches when condenser sources are used. And for VC papers? Not for me. I'll stick with the diffusion colorheads on my Durst enlargers. I have no problem handling highlights ever since I started using PMK to begin with, though sometimes its nice to go the extra step to unsharp masking too, for the extra Wow factor.

[Mark J]

Yeh... I know, but I want to do this experiment now before it's too late and I can't handle the practical work involved. I can always revert to a diffuser head later if the problems are too much.
But this is a subject for another thread...

[Mark J]

Not having found any evidence of film or pricing on Kodak 5x7 sheet film on EBay, can I check with the US photographers - is 5x7 Kodak film a special order item ?
It looks like Keith Canham could offer it (and other formats), based on enquiries.

[Oren Grad]

A quick check just now shows 5x7 TMY in stock at B&H and 5x7 TXP in stock at Freestyle.

At B&H, TXP and E100 are flagged as "temporarily out of stock", Ektar 100 and Portra 400 as "special order".

[Mark J]

Thanks.

[Jim Andrada]

Keith Canham puts together group purchases from time to time. I've gotten 5 x 7 Ektar 100 that way

[tgtaylor]

I didn't like the amidol tweak to PMK - just too unpredictable. And being mainly a field photographer who backpacked to locations, I didn't have the luxury of taking duplicate shots or bracketing sheet film exposures. In that respect, TMY proved more economical than low-budget sheet films because it was reliable in terms of quality control and more versatile to use. FP4 was my idea of a budget option, provided I could work with the lower speed, and if the scene contrast wasn't off the map - but that's exactly what I often encounter - windy days and extreme scene contrast. Another default for sake of saving money is to shoot 120 roll film when I have only moderate sized enlargements in mind; and in 6x9 format it mimics that lovely longer proportion of
5X7.

For extreme scene contrast try the split grade printing technique and Defender 59D print developer. I recently revisited such a negative that I couldn't get a decent print from in the past and got a decent print using that technique. Dektol (1:2) rendered a too contrasty print and 59D (1:3) tamed the contrast. Using Dektol 1:3 or 1:4 may give a similar result.