View Full Version : Wildest Petzval Swirl Ever
goamules
24-Sep-2009, 13:33
As some of you petzval fan's know, we have a petzval flickr (http://www.flickr.com/groups/868027@N25/pool/) group with many examples of shots taken with these lenses.
But when I saw this one I just suspect it's a photoshop attempt to make a swirl. I asked the photog but no answer yet.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28713901@N04/3951456368
I mean, has anyone seen it go from sharp, to swirl, then back to NOT swirled before the coverage even drops off? The only thing I've seen close is when the rear assy is misassembled. I told the owner that he might want to check. But it just looks seriously fake, all items at all ranges are swirling mightily, even the tree trunk which has no highlights....
he posted this on apug.org as well. quite cool
Yes, the same photographer posted a bunch of shots on APUG. His b+w work looked authentic enough. I agree--that's one crazy Petzval signature. I say real because photoshopping and doing all that masking would be more work than using a Petzval. Maybe there's some bad separation in the lens?
Pete Watkins
24-Sep-2009, 15:06
There seems to be too much of the twigs and berries part ofthe image in sharp focus for it to be a real straight from the camera image. Some of these digi-freaks will spend weeks trying to get special effects, probably 'cos they leave very shallow lives.
Pete
Jim Galli
24-Sep-2009, 15:25
There seems to be too much of the twigs and berries part ofthe image in sharp focus for it to be a real straight from the camera image. Some of these digi-freaks will spend weeks trying to get special effects, probably 'cos they leave very shallow lives.
Pete
True enough, but to do all that work and then post it in APUG, that's adventurous.
Daniel_Buck
24-Sep-2009, 17:17
the photo looks like it was genuinely shot through a lens to me, that's a wild one for sure!
digi-freaks will spend weeks trying to get special effects, probably 'cos they leave very shallow lives.
:rolleyes:
Jim collum
24-Sep-2009, 17:19
sounds like a pretty closed minded and insecure comment to me. :rolleyes:
i was pretty shallow when all i did was film.. i don't think digital has changed it :D
the enlarged version looks real.. there's a glow that's pretty hard to dup in photoshop around the 'in focus' areas.. but even if not.. it's still an interesting image :)
benrains
24-Sep-2009, 20:21
It reminds me of how the ground-glass image of my 8x10 Vesta looked before I figured out it had one of its rear elements installed backwards.
Terence McDonagh
25-Sep-2009, 06:12
As the background is far enough away to be out of focus, it makes sense to me that it would have the swirl back there as well. But maybe I'm not understanding all the optical issues of petzvals.
Perhaps a strong anti-vignetting filter has been added, causing the strange effect at the edges? It would make more sense if there was a illumination fall-off after the bulge effect.
goamules
25-Sep-2009, 10:47
Usually the swirl progresses as you get away from the center. Always, really. And then the coverage vignettes. However, I did see pretty wild affects if the rear elements are assembled in the wrong order, as discussed above.
Compare the swirls here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/unrealalex/3839390464/in/pool-868027@N25
http://www.flickr.com/photos/garrettsphotos/3707395722/in/pool-868027@N25
http://www.flickr.com/photos/djkloss/3677471532/in/pool-868027@N25
...and you will see distinct differences between them and the original post. Notice how the swirl is a function of both distance from the lens and distance from the center? (Range and Azimuth from my old Navy days) It is a somewhat subtle effect with the key drivers for swirl being; items with a lot of small contrast/highlights, items towards the outer edges, items in a key area of out of focus beyond the focal point.
Jeremy Moore
25-Sep-2009, 11:08
Maybe he will chime in as he's a member here: ImSoNegative (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/member.php?u=17449) and just logged in today and posted the image over on the Galli thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=511435&postcount=251).
You can also get some stuff you don't expect, this is a picture of trees taken with a verito:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3495117145_1d8a0e587b.jpg
You can also get some stuff you don't expect, this is a picture of trees taken with a verito:
Oh boy, now *that*s wild… How can something like that happen? Anybody could help with an explanation?
Jeremy Moore
25-Sep-2009, 14:25
Oh boy, now *that*s wild… How can something like that happen? Anybody could help with an explanation?
The swirl is happening in the out of focus areas in front of the in-focus area. If you look deep "into" the image you can see an in-focus tree trunk in the upper right third of the image. The closest branches were less than a foot from the camera while the in-focus tree trunk is about 10 feet away. I also pressed a 9" verito into service on an 8x10 camera further accenting the swirl, as on 4x5 it would have just been right at the edges.
Ah, it is the three-dimensional aspect of the tree that makes it - smart. And very nice, very disorienting…
Jim Galli
25-Sep-2009, 23:20
I looked at all of this fellows petzval shots over at APUG (http://www.apug.org/forums/members/goldenimage-albums-petzval-images.html) and am quite convinced they are un tampered with. The one of the cat on the porch rail, he mentions the name of the lens and shows a picture of it. It's only a 4" lens so the fact that it somehow has illumination over most of a 4X5 area explains why it gets so weird. Could also be a reversed element in the rear like several have said.
goamules
26-Sep-2009, 20:34
You were right Jim, I heard from the photog, he says the lens appears correct, and just shoots that way. Strange and interesting.
ImSoNegative
26-Sep-2009, 21:53
Wow all this about me lol, I assure you that doubt that this is a straight from the camera shot. hey jim it was your great posts that got me interested in these old brass lenses. I really enjoy your work. Im going to shoot a portrait with it monday looking forward to seeing the results. hey goamules i really enjoy the group over at flickr. here is another with the lens
Jim collum
26-Sep-2009, 22:07
Wow all this about me lol, I assure you that doubt that this is a straight from the camera shot. hey jim it was your great posts that got me interested in these old brass lenses. I really enjoy your work. Im going to shoot a portrait with it monday looking forward to seeing the results. hey goamules i really enjoy the group over at flickr. here is another with the lens
Great sense of depth to that image. I've been enjoying the toys from Jim as well!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.