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Bill_1856
20-Sep-2009, 03:25
I just watched the Lifetime TV film "Georgia O'Keefe." It was, of course, as much about Alfred Steiglitz as about O'Keeffe.
Technically not bad, although they scrambled the timelines, as films often do. I think the worst problem was that she doesn't look like O'Keeffe, although the costumes, hair styling, and mannerisms were convincing.
As to the chacterization of Steiglitz (perfectly portrayed by Jeremy Irons), I just kept thinking of that wonderful quote by Alvy Singer: "What an asshole!"

Winger
20-Sep-2009, 05:19
For squishing her whole life into a 2 hour TV movie, it wasn't bad. They did show him teaching her to develop film with a red light on, too.
I've loved her work since I saw some at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts several years ago and I would actually like to watch an accurate documentary of her whole life.

Rick Tardiff
20-Sep-2009, 05:37
I was looking forward to seeing it but there were too many stops and starts with advertisements. Maybe it will come out on dvd? O'Keefe and Steiglitz were such a force and influence on the American art scene.

Bill_1856
20-Sep-2009, 07:53
Victornoir, I recorded it and fast-forwarded through the innumerable commercials.
I presume there are many printed biographys of GO'K -- the one I've read was "Portrait of An Artist." There is also an excellent DVD which actually features a cameo by St. Ansel (probably a lot better than this movie).
Dorothy Norman also wrote a very flattering bio of AS, and I was glad to see that the movie was honestly informative about their relationship.

Brian Ellis
20-Sep-2009, 09:17
There is also a one-woman show of Georgia O'Keefe's life that I was lucky enough to catch live a few years ago. I don't remember the star's name or whether it's even still touring but it's well worth seeing if it happens to come to your area.

Brian Ellis
20-Sep-2009, 09:18
For squishing her whole life into a 2 hour TV movie, it wasn't bad. They did show him teaching her to develop film with a red light on, too.
I've loved her work since I saw some at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts several years ago and I would actually like to watch an accurate documentary of her whole life.

Better showing film developed with a red light than 10 minutes of total darkness.

Gem Singer
20-Sep-2009, 10:55
Steglitz was probably using ortho film, not pancro film. Insensitive to red light.

Steve M Hostetter
20-Sep-2009, 11:23
I had found Georgia O'Keefe several yrs ago and read Wikapedia biography on her.. interesting things there

Renato Tonelli
20-Sep-2009, 12:30
Several years ago there was a dramatization on O'Keefe and Steiglitz lives on PBS. No commercials (I truly cannot tolerate commercial TV anymore); I caught the broadcast at the point where he pressures her to have an abortion because raising a child would have been a nuisance, an intrusion into their (HIS) lifestyle. The film portrayed him (or maybe it's how I interpret it) as insensitive to her feelings.

Keith Pitman
20-Sep-2009, 17:53
I think the worst problem was that she doesn't look like O'Keeffe,

What a silly comment! Why should an actress "look" like the character she plays? Do all photographs look like the subject?

cowanw
20-Sep-2009, 18:19
I have a book
O'keeffe and Stieglitz
An American Romance
by Benita Eisler
Which is well worth finding if this relationship interests you.
Very strange people, them two
Regards
Bill

poco
21-Sep-2009, 03:33
I fell asleep half way through the film but up until then it struck me as strange how little it focused on her art. For the first hour (at least) of the movie, you'd barely know she painted.

Mark Sawyer
21-Sep-2009, 06:54
The show seemed an odd soap opera to me; O'Keefe portrayed as a strong woman, and Stieglitz as an almost comedically weak man, yet he totally dominated and victimized her. And Dorothy Norman was played as a wide-eyed, somewhat foolish schoolgirl/sex-kitten. Through her actual writings and photography, she seemed to be quite a bit more than that.

Perhaps one of the little victories of spending one's artistic life in obscurity is that Lifetime never does a bio-pic on you...

mandoman7
21-Sep-2009, 09:02
Pretty much the same stuff you get with the Van Gogh movie, Lust for Life, and other such exploitations. Its never the goal to delve into what's behind the creative process. Rather, they identify an odd element in their behaviour and exaggerate that, as a weak excuse for a story.

I've argued at parties that if artists were given the same press as are given the sports heroes in the sports sections, then a comparable fan base would be developed. People respond to stories that develop empathy, such as those human interest stories about the athlete who's overcome personal difficulties. Stories about overcoming hurdles, and dealing with setbacks, always engender support and interest. Those writers know how to stoke the interest of a fan base.

But artists are typically given patronizing attention from the media, usually focussing on either the behavioural eccentricities, or the pussy-cat sweetness of the story. No wonder nobody can sell anything, with artists continually portrayed as self indulgent eccentrics.

Robert Hughes
21-Sep-2009, 18:44
I've argued at parties that if artists were given the same press as are given the sports heroes in the sports sections, then a comparable fan base would be developed.
But sports stars represent success icons in an authoritarian power culture, which is antithetical to the goals and personalities of most artists I know (not the success part, rather the latter).

Jim Noel
22-Sep-2009, 09:48
Steglitz was probably using ortho film, not pancro film. Insensitive to red light.

Actually, he was far more likely to be using orthochromatic film than panchromatic. When I started developing film in the late 1930's essentially all available film was ortho. There were many articles in the magazines of the time touting one over the other and gradually pan films became the most common because of several traits. Pan films were really given a big boost when Kodak began making Tri-X Pan and advertising it as superior for portraits.

mandoman7
24-Sep-2009, 06:47
But sports stars represent success icons in an authoritarian power culture, which is antithetical to the goals and personalities of most artists I know (not the success part, rather the latter).

Everyone's basically struggling for attention.

Brian Ellis
24-Sep-2009, 09:58
Several years ago there was a dramatization on O'Keefe and Steiglitz lives on PBS. No commercials (I truly cannot tolerate commercial TV anymore); I caught the broadcast at the point where he pressures her to have an abortion because raising a child would have been a nuisance, an intrusion into their (HIS) lifestyle. The film portrayed him (or maybe it's how I interpret it) as insensitive to her feelings.

Sensitivity to the feelings of others - any others - wasn't one of Steiglitz's strong points. From all I've read about him he was a very selfish, self-absorbed individual. But we judge artists by their art, not by their candidacy for a Mother Theresa award.

mandoman7
25-Sep-2009, 18:23
Didn't Ansel choose to continue on a hiking trip to get "important" pictures, rather than attend the birth of his first child? Before judging, though, the standards of the times need to be kept in mind.

Attitudes towards child rearing were wildly different in those days. Most people who could afford to would pay someone to raise their children. Seriously. This is before contraception. It was probably hardly ever good news when a pregnancy happened, compared to now. Unless you had a farm that needed workers or a dynasty that needed a successor.

Renato Tonelli
25-Sep-2009, 18:35
Sensitivity to the feelings of others - any others - wasn't one of Steiglitz's strong points. From all I've read about him he was a very selfish, self-absorbed individual. But we judge artists by their art, not by their candidacy for a Mother Theresa award.

Well put.

Rick Tardiff
25-Sep-2009, 18:57
Victornoir, I recorded it and fast-forwarded through the innumerable commercials.
I presume there are many printed biographys of GO'K -- the one I've read was "Portrait of An Artist." There is also an excellent DVD which actually features a cameo by St. Ansel (probably a lot better than this movie).
Dorothy Norman also wrote a very flattering bio of AS, and I was glad to see that the movie was honestly informative about their relationship.

I have to figure out how to work these devices for television! I actually have the D.Norman bio, "An American Seer", I agree it was very flattering, she was an AS fan I guess. I also read bio by Katherine Hoffman, "A Beginning Light", It looks at his formative years and works before 1917. I don't think he would have won any popularity contest.
Rick

Bill_1856
25-Sep-2009, 19:49
This is before contraception.

Where have you been?
Contraception has been around since Ancient Egypt, and was common in the US after the turn of the 20th Century, (when newly invented Latex rubber comdoms became almost universally available "behind the counter" at most pharmacies).
You will note that Ansel and Virginia only had two children, as was the norm until after WW2 in middle class families.
This particular movie didn't mention that it was the abortion of AS's child that put GO'K into the funny farm.

Turner Reich
25-Sep-2009, 21:26
It's what I always thought of Mr. Stieglitz, a cold impersonal indifferent cunt hound. Why people feared him I have no idea, he used people like an old raincoat.

cowanw
26-Sep-2009, 04:40
Where have you been?
Contraception has been around since Ancient Egypt, and was common in the US after the turn of the 20th Century, (when newly invented Latex rubber comdoms became almost universally available "behind the counter" at most pharmacies).
You will note that Ansel and Virginia only had two children, as was the norm until after WW2 in middle class families.
This particular movie didn't mention that it was the abortion of AS's child that put GO'K into the funny farm.

I have never read about an abortion. Do you have source material for that?

Please don't mistake my meaning, I really want to know. Things can get misconstued on the internet.
Regards
BIll

cowanw
26-Sep-2009, 07:17
Did a bit of checking up and O'keefe had her Hospitalization in 1933. She was 46 then and Stieglitz was 69. A new baby in his life would have been inconvenient.:rolleyes:
Fecundity is down at those ages, but not impossible.
The only references on Google are related to the dramatization of the movie.
I would like to see source material on this topic:confused:
Regards
Bill

mandoman7
26-Sep-2009, 07:32
Where have you been?
Contraception has been around since Ancient Egypt, and was common in the US after the turn of the 20th Century, (when newly invented Latex rubber comdoms became almost universally available "behind the counter" at most pharmacies).
You will note that Ansel and Virginia only had two children, as was the norm until after WW2 in middle class families.
This particular movie didn't mention that it was the abortion of AS's child that put GO'K into the funny farm.

Thanks for the history lesson, but if you don't think that attitudes towards having children have changed, then where have YOU been.
I'm not excusing anything, just talking about the rush to judgement. Its easy to condemn past behaviour on the basis of today's values.

cowanw
26-Sep-2009, 09:28
It's what I always thought of Mr. Stieglitz, a cold impersonal indifferent cunt hound. Why people feared him I have no idea, he used people like an old raincoat.

Funny you should use that word. He was described by a collegue as being "c**t crazy" ( sorry I can't bring myself to type that, my female collegues would slay me); he also referred to O'keeffe's ingratitude, saying "the c**t has no memory".
Regards
Bill

Turner Reich
26-Sep-2009, 20:58
I've never used that word before, in his case it is aptly applied.

Mark Sawyer
26-Sep-2009, 20:59
Serves him right for being part of the human evolutionary chain...