Electronic Controllers for Large Shutters w/ Solenoid Actuators

[Mike1234]

I have several large Packard type shutters ranging from 2.5" to 4.5" all of which have solenoid actuators. I also have a box of Ilex electronic shutter controllers which I'm going to adapt to the shutters. I realize I'll need an external relay and power source to actuate the shutters. That's not a problem.

Before I start digging into the controllers... does anyone have the wiring diagram?

Here's a pic to one of the controllers... http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/250_GTO/Photo/DSCN5285.jpg

[Len Middleton]

Mike,

Looks like you are not getting many responses, so let me try to see if I can help.

You have already determined that you need an external relay and power supply, so that should allow you to separate the voltages of the two devices, so one does not "fry" the other.

Given the vintage of the box, I would not expect much in the way of integrated circuits (maybe a 555 timer?) and would think that there might be more capacitor and resistor ciruits to determine the timing.

But do you really need to know what is inside the box, unless of course it does not work? Could you not just set it up, and using a voltmeter determine what contacts on the output drive the shutter solenoid when you trigger it? Or is there a piece here I am missing, or overlooking?

Just some thoughts,

Len

[rob]

That controller outputs a short pulse of "kicking" high voltage (may be 48 volts), followed by a holding voltage (6 or 12 volts depending on the shutter model). I built one myself to control my ilex #5 electronic shutter. BTW, if you have more than one controller, I'm interested to purchase one to replace my homemade controller if the price is reasonable.

[Mike1234]

Len, thank you. Answers in bold within your post below.




Looks like you are not getting many responses, so let me try to see if I can help.

You have already determined that you need an external relay and power supply, so that should allow you to separate the voltages of the two devices, so one does not "fry" the other.

ANSWER: Yes, this is correct. The solenoids are of various makes/models and are clearly marked. I can look up their proper operating voltages and current demands under load.

Given the vintage of the box, I would not expect much in the way of integrated circuits (maybe a 555 timer?) and would think that there might be more capacitor and resistor ciruits to determine the timing.

ANSWER: Correct again. These are mostly, if not completely, analog devices. I'll have to take one apart and look for timing circuits.

But do you really need to know what is inside the box, unless of course it does not work? Could you not just set it up, and using a voltmeter determine what contacts on the output drive the shutter solenoid when you trigger it? Or is there a piece here I am missing, or overlooking?

ANSWER: Right again... No I don't need to know the whole circuit schematic. I'm not intelligent enought to understand it anyway. Sorry I didn't state this clearly. :o

SPECIFICITY: The issue is multiple plugs/sockets performing multiple functions. The 2-pronged male output is easy to understand... obviously goes to the solenoid. The second socket is a female 3-pronged DIN-type and I'm assuming this sends "open/closed" data back to the controller?? The third 7-pronged socket is the most complicated, of course. I can only assume this sends data to some external monitoring device???

What I need to know is the "output wiring" of the two DIN style plugs. I can fiddle around and figure most of it out but, given the complexity of unknown functions, it's much easier if someone can provide existing data. What can I say? I'm lazy... ;)



EXTRA: Once I fiure this out I'll be pairing rear (or front) shutters/controllers and selling them as sets. If all goes well I'll have 10 sets available. Sizes will range from 2.5" to a whopping 4.5".

[Len Middleton]

Mike,

Sorry if some of my questions and comments should be filed under "a blinding flash of the obvious". Thank you for confirming some of my thoughts.

I had a similar shutter timing box (but different manufacturer) for use with an ELCAN enlarging lens, but that was some time ago. A picture of the connections of a Ilex shutter that connected to that box would obviously be of great value, but I expect if you had that shutter there would not be many of these questions...

I would not assume that all of the contacts in the plugs and sockets are in use. The use of different plug configuration helps to improve the odds of things getting plugged into where they are supposed to be in the initial design (see "Murphy's Law"), when there are multiple connections.

I would be surprised if the two prong male socket goes to the shutter solenoid. I say that because a designer would not want voltage on a male plug, as it is much easier to accidently short out than a female one. But try with a voltmeter and see what you get.

You might find that the 3 prong female socket might be the trigger signal to the solenoid (two current carrying conductors, plus ground?). If it is grounded you could see that in the box itself. Does the socket have some sort of mechanical locking device that would help hold it onto a shutter?

Without knowing what the shutter the timer box was designed for all of this of course is a SWAG (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess:D ). But without some sort of microswitch in the shutter, you are not going to get a open / closed status signal from the shutter. What would one use that signal for, assuming the camera operator is in the area and could hear the shutter trip and close and / or the flash fire?

One set might be to trigger a flash. The two pin male might do that, but because of the high voltages involved in flashes would likely be connected through a relay (same idea as you have) to keep the big voltage (+500V) away from the "small voltage bits in the box".

The 7 contact connector does not have an obvious solution (other than my assumptions / guesses above are wrong!!!:eek: ). It might be a test connection or to slave another unit, or a remote trigger (e.g. from a scope, motion detector circuit, etc.).

Best guesses on my part,

Len

[Mike1234]

Len... I took a pic intending to post it in my previous message but became side-tracked and forgot.

I didn't state the "obvious" at all. In fact, I was far too ambiguous. However, my feeble failing brain gives me an excuse.:p

Pic:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x214/250_GTO/Photo/DSCN5307.jpg

I will answer your questions later today.

[Len Middleton]

Mike,

Thanks for the pictures. The connectors look similar to a "MIL" style connector (MIL => military), rather than "DIN" style. That would make sense for a USA based company like ILEX building the box.

It does not yet change any of my thoughts on what the potential use of the various connections might be.

I did not take offense nor intended any in the "obvious" comment. It was my twisted sense of humour not trranslating well through my written comment. You "obviously" were not able to detect the irony in my voice as I was speaking to myself composing it.:D

Regards,

Len

[Mike1234]

Len,

I didn't intend to imply I took any offense... quite the contray... and I truly appreciate your help. I detected no irony either, however, and I find that a bit ironic. :D

You're probably correct about the MIL type connectors. I'll try to take and post some pics of the internals this afternoon.

Mike

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Mike,

this might help:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum147/46627-how-wire-up-your-ilex-speedcomputer-electronic-shutter.html

the link should go directly to the page.

[Mike1234]

Thank you, Paul. Yes this will help.

[Len Middleton]

Mike,

Certainly the link Paul provided helps in providing real information rather than my speculation and guesses.

So the 7 pin connector provides information and control between the shutter and the timing box...

Then the remaining connectors would likely be for a remote trigger signal to the shutter and the other to fire a flash.

To allow flexibility into what it connects to and address the different voltage and power supplies of the equipment they connect to, then it would be reasonable to expect them to use unpowered contacts as inputs and provide unpowered relay contacts for outputs.

If that is a correct assumption, then to remotely trigger the system, they would take a remote contact (e.g. relay or switch) and run power from the timing box through it. I would expect that one of the remaining sets of contacts would have voltage on it to trigger the shutter. That could be the three pin female connector.

To fire a flash they would provide a relay contact and depend upon the power from the flash unit to trigger the flash. There would be no voltage on the contact when the unit is tripped, but an ohmmeter reading or continuity tester should indicate it closing when the shutter is tripped. First check to ensure it has no voltage, so you do not blow the ohmmeter setting on your meter. That could be the two pin male connector.

Let us know how you make out,

Len

[Mike1234]

That controller outputs a short pulse of "kicking" high voltage (may be 48 volts), followed by a holding voltage (6 or 12 volts depending on the shutter model). I built one myself to control my ilex #5 electronic shutter. BTW, if you have more than one controller, I'm interested to purchase one to replace my homemade controller if the price is reasonable.

Rob,

Sorry I missed your post. Yes, there is likely a higher voltage "kicker" pulse on both the opening and closing functions and a holding voltage.

I would be interested to see the schematic for the controller you built. Maybe we can work a trade? I wanted to keep all ten controllers to mate with the ten shutters I have but a good working schematic is worth something too me. Shoot me a PM if interested.

Mike

[Mike1234]

Len, thank you. You're certainly better versed on electronics than I. The external power and relays are easy. It's just the function of the box... will try to figure that out.