Infrared Film Question - Is it plug and play?

[dperez]

I would like to experiment with IR film and have been thinking of getting some Rollei IR400. I have an Arca-Swiss F line basic. I am wondering what things I should be aware of when using IR films.

I have read some of the threads about bellows issues and that one should conduct a test to make sure their bellows is IR tight. Besides the need for a Hoya R72 filter (for the Rollei stuff), are there any other things I should be aware of? For example, does the shot process differ at all?

Thanks in advance.

-Daniel

[Walter Calahan]

Don't forget about the focus shift of IR. If you are shooting with a wide-angle and stop down enough, this might not be a issue.

Load and unload film in total darkness, and store in light tight container.

Good luck.

[Brian Ellis]

It's been years since I've used any IR film and I've never used the Rollei IR film, my experience was with Kodak HIE in 35mm and 4x5. But since you've only gotten one response I'll mention a couple things.

Assuming Rollei shares similar characteristics to Kodak, you should make sure your darkroom is 100% light tight, not the 99% that maybe has been working for normal film. When I handled IR film I took precautions like taking off my watch to eliminate the dial that glows in the dark, covered the timer to eliminate it's lighted numbers, covered the little red lighted dots in my printer head that indicated its status, etc. I don't know whether that kind of thing is necessary with Rollei but it was with Kodak IR film (at least I was told it was and I never messed up a roll of IR).

For processing there was nothing special about Kodak IR except that the 35mm film was very thin and hard to load on a reel because it kept twisting up. But I just processed it for whatever the recommended time was and don't recall doing anything special.

After using IR film for a while I stopped worrying about focus shift. The amount of movement you make to compensate for it is almost infinitesimal and impossible to figure precisely when the lens doesn't have an IR marking as my LF lenses didn't. Plus it didn't really seem to matter even with 35mm lenses that had the marking. Depth of field will handle the tiny difference in focus and an IR negative isn't going to look super sharp anyhow, that's one of its appeals (at least with Kodak IR).

Good luck, IR is a lot of fun, you never know what you're going to get until you make the print and occasionally you get a really good surprise.

[Sevo]

Assuming Rollei shares similar characteristics to Kodak, you should make sure your darkroom is 100% light tight, not the 99% that maybe has been working for normal film. When I handled IR film I took precautions like taking off my watch to eliminate the dial that glows in the dark, covered the timer to eliminate it's lighted numbers, covered the little red lighted dots in my printer head that indicated its status, etc.

That borders on superstition, though. Even HIE (which was more infrared sensitive than any currently available infrared film) was modestly sensitive overall (about ISO 24 when shot without filter, with light and IR sensitivity adding up). Weak visual light sources did not matter more to HIE than they would have to Tri-X, and the luminous paint on your watch or red LEDs are visual only. What you have to do is block infrared sources - but these generally are not visible, and hunting down them used to be close to impossible, which originated "block every potential source in sight" methods like the one you mention.

Today, some twenty-five years after CCD video became consumer standard, checking a darkroom for IR tightness (or indeed a scene for IR intensity and quality) is easy and cheap - any old video camera with "night shot" mode can do it, and suitable Video8 camcorders with dead recorder section are next to free at any garage sale.

Sevo

[jp]

I've only done digital IR on a converted DSLR. Focus is very important unless you are using a very wide lens at a middle aperature. I typically lock the focus for the distance involved (focus, adjust, lock) and shoot away.

[drew.saunders]

Do a search for Infrared here, there was a thread a couple months ago in which many people added some technical information.

Flickr groups with useful discussions are
http://www.flickr.com/groups/efkeir820/
and
http://www.flickr.com/groups/68975634@N00/
The moderator of the Efke IR820 group has a web site about using that film with a Holga that has good general information:
http://www.theplasticlandscape.com/

Digital Truth has a whole bunch of articles on modern IR films at the top of this page:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/articles.php

I've used Efke IR820 and Rollei IR400. The Efke has a stronger IR "glow" effect, but is a less convenient film. It is very scratch prone (needs a hardening fixer with all the lovely scents associated with it) and less sensitive. With the R72, the Efke IR820 is best shot at around ISO 1 if using an external hand-held meter. Yep, that's 1 second at f16 on a sunny day. The Rollei is more sensitive, less grainy, and not scratch prone, and it works between ISO 2 and 8 if using an external meter. Of course, if you're not metering through the filter, then you have to figure out how IR sensitive your meter is relative to the film. Both the Rollei and Efke have an anti-halation layer that you'll want to remove with a good pre-soak before developing. The Efke is essentially useless without a really good pre-soak.

It's convenient to learn on 35mm or 120 and with a camera with a TTL meter, then compare the results to your hand-held to calibrate your external meter. If doing that, set the TTL meter for ISO 25 or 32 for the Efke IR820 and 50 to 100 for the Rollei. Test & bracket and decide what you like.

Here's my IR set on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/drew_saunders/sets/72157618657774764/
I include some exposure details on some of the pics.

It's fun stuff, but very far from plug & play.

If you're looking for the HIE effect, I've heard the new Efke IR820 Aura is closer to the old Kodak HIE, but is only available in 35mm. It has enhanced "glow" but enhanced grain and is a bit over the top for my tastes.

The Rollei doesn't require loading the film in the camera in absolute darkness, but the Efke suggests doing so, but only for 35mm (since the "fuzz" that the film travels through as it leaves the cassette is apparently not IR light tight). I've found no problems loading the 35mm Efke in subdued light.

Drew

[Wallace_Billingham]

Flickr groups with useful discussions are
http://www.flickr.com/groups/efkeir820/
and
http://www.flickr.com/groups/68975634@N00/
The moderator of the Efke IR820 group has a web site about using that film with a Holga that has good general information:
http://www.theplasticlandscape.com/




That would be me :) I have used the Efke film quite a bit but mainly in medium format. Check out the links above for more info

[Santo Roman]

Now I was told from a guy at BH months ago that the Rollei IR film (for 120) did not need to be loaded in total darkness. That being said, if this was true would this affect the film for total IR effect output? Just a thought and a question.

santo

[Wallace_Billingham]

Now I was told from a guy at BH months ago that the Rollei IR film (for 120) did not need to be loaded in total darkness. That being said, if this was true would this affect the film for total IR effect output? Just a thought and a question.

santo

You can treat it like any standard B&W. I would not load your camera in full mid-day sun in the middle of the desert but then again I would also not load up Tri-X in full mid-day sun in the middle of the desert

[Santo Roman]

Wallace,

I'm with you. I try to avoid direct sunlight with any loading of film. I think the guy at BH was blowing smoke through the bellows.

santo

[rguinter]

Greetings everyone: I've been using some old Konica 750 IR film and I've pretty well nailed down the exposure with my Tiffen 87 IR filter for proper exposure. Can anyone with experience with the Rollei film tell me how it might compare with the Konica? I just bought a bunch of the Ilford SFX and with similar exposures I get almost nothing on the negative. So I guess the Ilford has little if any sensitivity beyond the Tiffen filter cutoff. If someone can give me some thoughts on the Rollei I will consider buying a bunch of it while it's still available. I'm looking for the strong IR (Woods) effect. With all the comments about trouble with the Efke I guess I'll simply avoid that one altogether. Comments would be welcome and appreciated. Cheers. Bob G.

[rguinter]

... Both the Rollei and Efke have an anti-halation layer that you'll want to remove with a good pre-soak before developing. The Efke is essentially useless without a really good pre-soak...Drew

Also... Just wondering what would happen to the negatives without a pre-soak?

[drew.saunders]

Also... Just wondering what would happen to the negatives without a pre-soak?

I've had an incomplete pre-soak, and had strips of developed film and strips of undeveloped film. From that limited experience, I'm guessing you might get clear film, or at least have to develop for much longer.

[JRJacobs]

I'm looking for the strong IR (Woods) effect. With all the comments about trouble with the Efke I guess I'll simply avoid that one altogether. Comments would be welcome and appreciated. Cheers. Bob G.

Hi Bob -

I do a fair amount of IR shooting. I have found the Efke to have the strongest wood effect. I don't consider it a difficult or troublesome film to use. Just keep in mind that it is slow and has reciprocity, so you need to calculate your shoot times. I do not use a hardening fixer with it, and have had no problems with scratches, although I do handle my negatives carefully.

SFX is not considered to be a true IR film as the cutoff is too low.

[Jay W]

You mentioned this in the start, but the Wisner leather bellows certainly isn't light tight, and I think this is true for leather bellows in general unless they're lined. I knew this, but I forgot and blew a few sheets of HIE last year. (I also have an IR bellows) Yeah, I still have some HIE in the freezer, but it does seem to age even when frozen.

Jay

[Brian Ellis]

That borders on superstition, though. Even HIE (which was more infrared sensitive than any currently available infrared film) was modestly sensitive overall (about ISO 24 when shot without filter, with light and IR sensitivity adding up). Weak visual light sources did not matter more to HIE than they would have to Tri-X, and the luminous paint on your watch or red LEDs are visual only. What you have to do is block infrared sources - but these generally are not visible, and hunting down them used to be close to impossible, which originated "block every potential source in sight" methods like the one you mention.

Today, some twenty-five years after CCD video became consumer standard, checking a darkroom for IR tightness (or indeed a scene for IR intensity and quality) is easy and cheap - any old video camera with "night shot" mode can do it, and suitable Video8 camcorders with dead recorder section are next to free at any garage sale.

Sevo

It might have been superstition, I never felt like wasting any HIE to find out. My theory was that it took about 2 seconds to remove my watch and maybe another 10 seconds to throw a towel over the timer. I figured better to spend those few seconds taking precautions rather than taking any chance at all of ruining a roll or a bunch of sheets of HIE containing images I had spent many hours making. And I'd do the same thing today with any IR film for the same reason.

[Wallace_Billingham]

Also... Just wondering what would happen to the negatives without a pre-soak?

I have done it and it just takes a bit longer to develop, but got no ill effects. I presoak all the Efke films for the same reason. It takes a while for the emolsions to soften up you can do that with developer, or you can do that with a presoak.

The advantage with a presoak is that time is not very critical. Once its soft, its soft and extra time in plain water does no harm. With developer once its soft it starts to develop and you are never really sure how long that might take.