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Leonard Alecu
15-Aug-2009, 14:44
Hi,

I need information's about this lens:

W.A. Dagor 7 3/4 IN F:9,5 SN 758166;

Thank You!

Pete Roody
15-Aug-2009, 18:49
hmmm??? never saw this focal length/aperture combo in an american optical wa dagor. shutter is newer than the lens and therefore it is not a factory mount.

Jan Pedersen
15-Aug-2009, 19:20
Yes very unusual focal length. WA Dagors were all f8. 90 degree at f32 should give this lens a 394mm IC so plenty for 8x10
Uncoated, single coating from 77xxxxx and up.
Make sure that front and rear cells have same serial number. Should be a stellar lens on 8x10

Leonard Alecu
16-Aug-2009, 10:03
Hello,
Pete and Jan, thank you for your answers.

For me is unclear if this lens had or not the same design like the well-known f8 model super-dagor W.A. (100 degrees at f45). I can't find any information's about this lens.

Thank you again,
Leonard

Dan Fromm
16-Aug-2009, 11:20
Pete, its time we put a stake through the heart of the canard that there was a relationship between American Optical Company and C. P. Goerz American Optical Company. Take a look at this bit of ancient history: http://books.google.com/books?id=otwsAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA493&lpg=PA493&dq=catalog+OR+products+%22goerz+american+optical+company%22&source=bl&ots=B0GkT1mr_N&sig=PM4HJvShQE7l-o9LfR2FdWaOqlk&hl=en&ei=PkmISrjyM5fKtgeTgt3nDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=catalog%20OR%20products%20%22goerz%20american%20optical%20company%22&f=false Here's another: http://www.bolexcollector.com/lenses/40goerz.html

Jan, Zeiss Wide Angle Dagors were f/9. Check the VM, also look for auctions on eBay. I found some, want you to have the joy of searching too.

Leonard Alecu
16-Aug-2009, 14:57
Dan,
We know that Zeiss Dagor were f9. I have a 240mm one.
We are talking about a lens made by C.P.Goerz, American Optical Co.

From M. Wilkinson and C. Glanfield a lens collector's vade mecum* :


........"Super Dagor f8.0 3.625, 4.375, 6.0, 6.5, in in 1940-50 period This was a wide angle for 100. Another source says 70, but this may be too modest or at full aperture. Production ended, possibly in the 1970's.
Note the f8 Dagor is relatively common in USA lists and is sometimes featured as a wide-angle Dagor as in 3.625in (90mm approx.) and some only are Golden Dagors as well. (Wide Angle) ?Same lens sold also as Wide angle Dagor.(1947)".........

Yours,
Leonard

Lynn Jones
18-Aug-2009, 15:33
Hi,

I need information's about this lens:

W.A. Dagor 7 3/4 IN F:9,5 SN 758166;

Thank You!

Hi Leonard,

Not an uncommon lens in the 20th century. The WA Dagors were very similar to the Schneider Angulons in cross section and covered about 85 degrees. they were (usually) excellent lenses depending on their time and source.

The name Goerz became over the decades became a tangled mess. Carl Paul Goerz bought a small instrumet company in 1886 to supply schools, a year later he hired Carl Moser who started the photo supply busines in the company and shortly after that started making lenses. Upon Moser's death Goerz hired E. von Hoegh who invented the Dagors and other lenses. The Dagors actually sold 30,000 lenses in the first 4 years and were made under various makers until at least the mid 1980's. The growth of the company was incredible. In 1899 Goerz and American Optical created a subsidiary in the USA.

Zeiss and Goerz made huge numbers of optics during WWI, after the war's loss, only Zeiss was permitted to make military and government optics starving Goerz out. In ca1923 Goerz died, in ca 1926 Zeiss Ikon bought the company. The combination Zeiss-Goerz company was very unsuccessful and so C.P. Goerz was shut down and offered for sale. In about 1927 or so, Burke & James (George Drucker) bought the company complete with all existing lenses, tooling, and rights to the name and formulae. B&J were among the earliest to coat lenses and coated the existing Goerz optics as well as their own. B&J made many lenses in Chicago including their own design and and others under contract. B&J was bought by Ilex optical (mid 1960's ?)and eliminated all optics manufacturing but made existing lenses available for sale. A short time later, Burleigh Brooks bought B&J and in 1975, I became VP.

AOC decided to get out of the conventional lens business and stick to microscopes and other precision devices. over a period of time 3 or 4 other owners bought American Goerz including a wealthy coal minner who made Goerz a gift to his son-in- law who happened to have a deree in optics. None of these worked well and finally the last of them went out of business. In the 1970's, Schneider bought the corporate shell of Goerz to use for the fame of the name. They re-designed some of the lenses and they were sold with very little success although the quality was among the very best in the world. At that time Schneider was so busy that they didn't have production space in Germany and so their Goerz lenses were mostly made by Kern in Switzerland.

The Goerz lenses marked in inches were all made by the various American versions of Goerz. All of the German made lenses were in cm or mm.

Goerz Germany 1886-1926?
AOC Goerz USA (and later several other owners)1889 to various perhaps early 1970's
B&J's Goerz 1927 ?-1966 ?
Schneider-Goerz 1972 or 73 ? until the 1980's or so

Enjoy this, photo history lovers, at age 78, I won't live forever and I do teach Photographic History for Professiona Photography students.

Lynn

johnschlicher
18-Aug-2009, 19:41
Nice informative post Lynn, Thanks

Leonard Alecu
21-Aug-2009, 12:25
Dear Mr. Lynn,

I am more peacefully knowing that persons like you exist in this world.
Thank you for this.

LA

Archphoto
21-Aug-2009, 14:53
God bless, Lynn, thanks and do stay with us for a long while !

Peter

Jim Galli
22-Aug-2009, 10:21
Hi Lynn.

Thanks, and sorry, you're not off the hook for at least 20 more years. ;)

I'll add my "never seen one like that before" to the list. Maybe someone can at least produce a catalog with it listed? It's the next logical step from 6 1/2" in the american scheme. 1935 - 1940?? Looks like a treasure to me.

Leonard Alecu
22-Aug-2009, 11:05
Jim,
If you really like this lens I can send you the W.A. Dagor for some time. But you must let us known your opinion about the lens.
LA

Jim Galli
22-Aug-2009, 11:08
Jim,
If you really like this lens I can send you the W.A. Dagor for some time. But you must let us known your opinion about the lens.
LA

It would be fun to put it on the 7X17 and see how it holds up.

Robert Opheim
16-Dec-2012, 19:39
I have a couple of dagors near in number. I believe the lens in from the late 1930's. I have a 4 1/4 inch dagor with the number around 758... and a 3 5/8 inch WA dagor number around 759... from I think 1939 or 1940. I also have a 4 3/8 inch WA in the 77... range from the 1950's and a 8 1/4 inch 829...from the early
1970's. I have been shooting with the 3 5/8 inch lens since the 1980 at least. The wide angle uncoated dagor is wonderful for black and white film. I have been following the dagors for a long time - and I to have never seen a 7 3/4 inch wide angle made by C P Goerz - in the US.