Mixing Norma and newer Sinar components

[rdenney]

I'll be able to answer this for myself in a few days, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

I've ordered a front standard advertised by KEH as an "X400" for the Sinar Norma.

I own a Sinar F, and the weak mounting of the front standard has made me nervous. Plus, the rise mechanism seems a bit wiggly on it and it doesn't have fine focus. I bought what was billed as an F2 front standard on ebay, but it turned out to be a rear standard and I returned it (I should have noticed that it was opposite hand of what a front standard would have been).

But then I saw this Norma front standard advertised at what seemed a very reasonable price much lower than I'd seen for F2 or P standards, and I know the Norma stuff was made to a higher standard than the later F stuff. And every picture I've seen of a Norma front standard has fine focus, and the rise mechanism is on the sides of the lens board rather than at the bottom, which improves their stiffness if being pushed by the bellows. The downside (which isn't really a downside for me) is that the Norma standard is not a yaw-free design.

I've read that the bellows attachments are the same, and I know that the lensboard is the same, so it seems like a Norma front standard on a F would work fine. And I could use my current "Multipurpose" standard for its usual multiple purposes.

Did I screw up?

Rick "who has never actually inspected a Norma in the flesh" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah it will work fine, it will just look funny. You'll need a Norma rear end and rail clamp to make yourself a nice camera ;-)

Almost everything is interchangeable between the Norma and the F/P series, at least in 4x5, except the position of the metal hex rods and orientation of the bellows clips used to build the lenshade contraption.

[rdenney]

Yeah it will work fine, it will just look funny. You'll need a Norma rear end and rail clamp to make yourself a nice camera ;-)

Almost everything is interchangeable between the Norma and the F/P series, at least in 4x5, except the position of the metal hex rods and orientation of the bellows clips used to build the lenshade contraption.

Thanks. You aren't the first to expose Norma Snobbery to me, but I acknowledge the validity of it. Oh, well--"one piece at a time."

Hopefull, the standard I bought is what I think it is--the price was almost too good to be true. But KEH takes stuff back so I'm not worried.

The rod for the bellows shade is an issue--I rather like that feature. But I can always pop the other standard on if needed for precise shading, and use it as a holder for the compendium shade. Most of the time, I could probably just hold the bellows up to the lens and get adequate shading.

Rick "maybe I'll paint the Norma standard black. Yeah--there's an idea!" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

I think if you can find a pair of the Norma era shade clips then you're all set, the actual hex rod is just a length of 6mm hex I think. Even a hexagonal pencil will work.

[Daniel Unkefer]

What has already been said. Yes it's just standard hex rod, but the original Sinar rods are not expensive, nor are the Norma Bellows Holders. They will work just fine with your later bellows. You should probably pick up an original instruction book (the green spiral-bound one) to familarize yourself with the Norma system. It's all in there.

You can always use the F front and rear pieces for combining two bellows, for long shots, and as a compendium on the front.

If the Norma has any mechanical problems, just fix them. Not all of my Norma stuff is pristine, but it all will be working long after I am gone.

It's a slippery slope, but a good one.

Congrats.

[rdenney]

...not expensive, nor are the Norma Bellows Holders. They will work just fine with your later bellows....

Dan, if you happen to see a pair for a reasonable price, let out a yell.

Rick "you know where to find me" Denney

[Struan Gray]

I found the later bellows clips to work much better than the Norma ones. The simplest way to use the later ones on a Norma standard is to get one of the articulated bellows rods and use only one half of it: i.e. use the central stub to attach to the standard and one articulated arm to hold the bellows clip(s). The articulated arm can be rotated to whatever angle you desire.

This won't work if you want really long hoods, but then you're better off with an auxiliary standard out front anyway.

PS: MXV in the UK often have Sinar accessories at reasonable prices. They have several combinations of clips and rods at the moment.

[edwinb]

the joint rod is part number 472.51.000 and is listed with all the other filter accessory parts (http://www.image2output.com/prodlist.aspx?cat=33)

edwin

[rdenney]

Well, that'll learn me for jumping at a KEH ad when they don't have a picture. Turns out, it wasn't a front standard, it was a Norma multipurpose standard with the u-shaped uprights. No need at all to use the word "front" like they did.

But it's pretty useful even so and a lot lighter than the more current multipurpose standard. It has the range of movements needed for just about anything, so I'll probably keep it. Even for what it is, the price wasn't bad.

It would make a good intermediate bellows joint, a front holder for a compendium shade, or a rear holder for a viewing system. And it's light and compact enough to carry along.

(In a fit of foolishness, I bought what Samy's Camera had advertised on ebay as an "F2 Front Standard". The foolish part was that the controls were on the wrong side, and any Sinar owner, even an idiot like me, should have seen that. I didn't need another rear standard, so they sent me a front standard, but it was missing parts and had other issues, and they gave up and gave me my money back. There's lots of SInar stuff around, but often it's a hodgepodge of home-assembly with missing and mismatched parts. Beware.)

Rick "figuring sub-$100 for a Norma front lens standard was too good to be true" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

Unfortunately your best bet is going to be finding a good deal on a used F2 or Norma, assembling the Franken-Sinar of your choice, and then selling the leftover parts online.

It wasn't too long ago I saw a nice F2 with lens and accessories selling for $500 here; heck I bought an 8x10 Norma for not much more, and I've seen Ps go for under $500 too. When you see what the components sell for, "kitting out" a Sinar can double your money for the trouble of doing five or six transactions.

A few years ago when I was out of LF, I saw a Sinar F selling for only $300 (not unusual nowadays) and did essentially that, trading my up the foodchain and winding up with loaded Sinar system for not much more than the $300 originally invested (although at times I had $5-600 invested but I flipped stuff quickly by pricing it reasonably.)

It can be PITA and it feel like work but on a small scale it can be a fun hobby, this camera trading. Isn't that what this forum is all about anyway? I don't see that many photos... ;-)

[rdenney]

Unfortunately your best bet is going to be finding a good deal on a used F2 or Norma, assembling the Franken-Sinar of your choice, and then selling the leftover parts online.

I have an F-plus already and my kit is pretty complete. But the F front standard is a little wobbly and lacks geared focus, and when I see an F2 or Norma front standard offered for cheap, I pay attention. Yes, I could probably just buy an F2 and sell the remaining parts one at a time and cover my expenses, but that big a box arriving at the front door would, um, attract attention, if you know what I mean.

I paid a little over $300 for the F-plus with bag bellows, and only had to tweak up a couple of things mechanically. I have since added a couple of sets of conventional bellows, a rail extension, bellows clips and rods, and one or two other bits. Plus the required lens boards, of course, for my glass collection.

The Norma multipurpose standard is useful, light, and compact compared to using the existing F front standard as a multipurpose standard if I find a better front standard to use. So, I'll probably keep it.

Yes, it would probably have been cheaper in the long run to start with a restored Norma, or an F2, but fiddling with the mixing and matching is a lot of fun in its own right, and part of the hobby for me. That's one real attraction to the Sinar.

Rick "who also has a Cambo SC and Calumet CC-400 that aren't as much fun" Denney

[Daniel Unkefer]

aren't as much fun

No, they are not.

Normas are around, they turn up, often when you least expect to find anything. JimA at Midwest Photo, flipped me a -sweet- Norma Front Standard, for $250. That was the night we drank -alot- of beer with Ron Wisner, rummaging around down in their basement. What a HOOT.

Ron (being a precision photo machinist) said, "Now, THAT is a camera".