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R. Ying
7-Dec-1997, 19:48
Question: I have a lens which I want to use it on 2 different kind of large format cameras (non-compatible lens board, no adapter between them), what's the easiest way of doing it? To unmount the whole lens from one lens board and mount it to another lens board takes too much time. A second way I can think of is to get a second identical shutter assembly and mount that on the other lens board. To switch the lens, unscrew the front and rear elements from one shutter and screw them onto the other shutter.

The second way seems logical (I have not tried it yet), is there anything I missed that this can not be done? Another doubt is that I have never seen in the Shutterbug that a shutter assembly is sold just by itself, nor I know how much the shutter (say a Copal 00) cost.

QT Luong
7-Dec-1997, 19:56
You could get a custom adapter from a machinist which specialises in photographic work. I have also seen adds for a lensboard system where lenses are mounted on small discs, and then adaptors between discs and your front standard are sold for different sizes of front standards. I think your idea is quite feasible, with the only caveat of having to avoid to get dust inside the lenses during that operation. Calumet sells copal shutters #0,1,3. The #0 is around $200. However, the #00 is no longer in production and I don't know where to find one.

Jerry Molnar
21-Feb-1998, 23:38
One low cost technique....particularly if you know someone with access to a lath e, is to mount your lenses to 77mm screw on lens caps. Then mount female threade d caps (these are available in filter stack cap sets) to the camera lens boards using small screws and epoxy. This system works well when you are moving lenses among camera systems.

Leigh
17-Sep-2016, 18:43
You can find adapters for ?most? cameras to use Linhof Technika boards, which are rather small.
The lensboards themselves are readily available, in a range of qualities and prices.

I have such adapters for my 4x5 and 8x10 cameras, with lenses mounted on Linhof boards.
Switching a lens from one body to the other is trivial.

- Leigh

Alan Gales
17-Sep-2016, 19:04
I picked up a 305mm Kodak Portrait lens with an old 8x10 wooden tailboard camera cheap. Kodak 305mm Portrait lenses normally go for too much on Ebay. On mine the shutter is really worn. Since I also own a Kodak 14" Commercial Ektar in the same Kodak style Ilex #5 shutter, I just swap out the lens cells when I want to use the portrait lens. I don't mind since I don't use the portrait lens that often.

I used to own a Tachihara 4x5 which took Technika style boards. I had Bruce Wehman make me an adapter board to use the same boards on my 8x10 Wehman camera. It's a lot nicer than swapping lens cells between shutters.

Two23
17-Sep-2016, 19:17
You can find adapters for ?most? cameras to use Linhof Technika boards, which are rather small.
The lensboards themselves are readily available, in a range of qualities and prices.



Twenty years ago when the original post was made, there weren't many options. Now there are plenty of ebay sellers to pick up lens boards that convert to the now more or less standard Technika style boards.

(Looks like that was the one and only post the OP made. :) )


Kent in SD

Drew Bedo
18-Sep-2016, 05:17
This is a pretty old thread . . .the question was first posted back (way back) in 1997, almost 20 years ago. While others may have an interest, at this point is any response still relevant to the OP ,ember R.Ying?

Oren Grad
18-Sep-2016, 05:48
It's OK to add new on-topic posts to old threads. The OP isn't the only person reading these.

jnantz
18-Sep-2016, 06:27
adapter boards are worth their weight in gold.
i've all my 4x5 lenses on round edged metal speed graphic lens boards
i was advised to do this back when i first came here, and haven't looked back.
originally it was for speed graphic + GVII to share the same boards and now it is
between a speed graphic, toyo cx, and szabad 5x7 ( uses GVII lensboards, i no longer have a GVII ) i use 2 adapters
between 3 cameras and couldn't be happier. speed graphic lensboards are tiny/ take up very little space
and the adapter boards just stay on their cameras. works perfectly !


It's OK to add new on-topic posts to old threads. The OP isn't the only person reading these.

hope he/she actually came back to read the responses! its been a long long time, and this was the OP's only post :)

john

Pere Casals
18-Sep-2016, 07:06
We have a new resource today: 3D printers. I easily made some boards and a CAMBO to Sinar adapter. Cheap and straight. With Solidworks or Inventor one can do a lot. Just one needs some knowledge of that cad software, and about 3D printing...

Two23
18-Sep-2016, 07:50
We have a new resource today: 3D printers. I easily made some boards and a CAMBO to Sinar adapter. Cheap and straight. With Solidworks or Inventor one can do a lot. Just one needs some knowledge of that cad software, and about 3D printing...


Is this just using wood, or can you also do metal? I've been wanting to have a copy of a Petzval pinion gear made.


Kent in SD

nonuniform
18-Sep-2016, 11:38
But really, how is it "too much time" to switch lens boards?

I mean, are you shooting with two cameras at the same time, with the same lens? That's an interesting technique.

Otherwise, this seems sorta like, a non-problem. Sorry, just trying to simplify for ya. :)

jnantz
18-Sep-2016, 11:42
But really, how is it "too much time" to switch lens boards?

I mean, are you shooting with two cameras at the same time, with the same lens? That's an interesting technique.

Otherwise, this seems sorta like, a non-problem. Sorry, just trying to simplify for ya. :)


hi nonuniform
sometimes i bring 2 cameras with me to a job site
i might not need PC for a couple of views and i need PC for others
so i use both cameras, same lenses...
i for one, find it to be a real drag to have to switch lens boards

Pere Casals
18-Sep-2016, 18:40
Is this just using wood, or can you also do metal? I've been wanting to have a copy of a Petzval pinion gear made.
Kent in SD

3D Printers can print metal , but this is a very advanced application... not common...

http://3dprinting.com/metal/

I print with ABS plastic. Sometimes I make a silicone mold to make the part with high strength resin, glass fiber can be mixed in to reinforce it.

Another common approach is to print a PE plastic mold, to later make a quality part of resin. Also metal parts can be placed inside the mold to reinforce the part...

Regards

Drew Bedo
19-Sep-2016, 05:00
It's OK to add new on-topic posts to old threads. The OP isn't the only person reading these.

Well Ok then.

I have long thought that 3D printing had a place in the LF photographer's tool box. Recreating vintage parts is a start. A year ago I did some clicking around and found several outfits that will print a part from your own digital file. Plastics in several levels of durability are available. But aluminum, brass, stainless steel and even titanium can be used to make parts.

Sadly, I found that I do not have the talent or patience to learn the coding and other what-all to actualize my imaginings.

Having a one-off focusing gear made for a seriously desirable antique lens could be cost effective. Recreating a set of water house stops. or just a missing piece , 0is another natural for 3D printing..

Re-designing the Grafmaticmagazines, or the MIDO system in plastic would be terrific.

Maybe we need a thread or forum here on 3D printing applications for LF.

Ari
19-Sep-2016, 05:25
But really, how is it "too much time" to switch lens boards?

I mean, are you shooting with two cameras at the same time, with the same lens? That's an interesting technique.

Otherwise, this seems sorta like, a non-problem. Sorry, just trying to simplify for ya. :)

For me, it's not about when you're at the job site, but before.
I wouldn't want to spend time unscrewing one or more lenses each time I decided to shoot a different format.
Also, when preparing for a job, I have enough things to remember I have to bring; having lenses on the same lens board mount is one less thing to worry about.

LabRat
19-Sep-2016, 05:47
One issue that can come up with using adapter boards is if using a axis swing/tilt, well designed camera is that the camera movements will center/pivot at the rear nodal point area of the rear lens, so lens movements will stay nicely in focus as you move them... If you add distance forward from it, more re-focusing will be required the further it is away (as it moves), so if the adapter is too thick, you loose this great feature of the design...

I don't know if 3D printing is worth it for one-off applications, but I'm spoiled by having some shop gear to be able to make nice stuff in an hour or so, old school style using a variety of materials (often from the scrap bin) and make what I need directly on demand... The materials seem more sturdy than some of the resins used for some processes, and if I use aluminum, much better than some of the pot metal-like stuff... And I'm often working on existing parts/materials, so if I'm adding some work to it (not starting from scratch), and I can decide how hard or easy I would like this process to be, so that would save me from a more complicated CAD/CAM design, and it might be more complicated setting up for holding these parts down for the machine to do it's thing... CAD/CAM makes much more sense to me if several (or many) identical parts needed to be made from scratch...

Steve K

IanG
19-Sep-2016, 08:05
In another thread here a UK member had a conical lens board made by 3D printing, it wasn't expensive. It was for an MPP MicroTechnical, they use a conical board (opposite of recessed but not as severe as a top-hat) to allow the use of a 90mm WA keeping the standard on the inner rails.

Ian

Alan Gales
19-Sep-2016, 09:36
But really, how is it "too much time" to switch lens boards?

I mean, are you shooting with two cameras at the same time, with the same lens? That's an interesting technique.

Otherwise, this seems sorta like, a non-problem. Sorry, just trying to simplify for ya. :)


I still own an 8x10 Wehman camera now with both 4x5 and 8x10 backs instead of the 8x10 plus a smaller 4x5 camera. A couple of my lenses are mounted on Wehman boards but the ones in smaller shutters are mounted on the smaller Technika style boards. The much smaller Tehcnika style boards take up less room in my camera bag. The adapter board takes up no room since I have it mounted on the camera while it is in the camera bag.

Also switching lenses on boards can be cumbersome out in the field. I'd hate to drop a cell or shutter while swapping boards.

Pere Casals
19-Sep-2016, 18:55
Well Ok then.

I have long thought that 3D printing had a place in the LF photographer's tool box. Recreating vintage parts is a start. A year ago I did some clicking around and found several outfits that will print a part from your own digital file. Plastics in several levels of durability are available. But aluminum, brass, stainless steel and even titanium can be used to make parts.

Maybe we need a thread or forum here on 3D printing applications for LF.

One can combine standard metal gearing parts with 3D printed plastic fixtures and even with titanium reinforcement. 3D printing is an entire word, with a lot of quality choices (SLA...) this is the first board I made, it holds a heavy LOMO 600mm:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/22703108104/in/dateposted-public/







I don't know if 3D printing is worth it for one-off applications, but I'm spoiled by having some shop gear to be able to make nice stuff in an hour or so, old school style using a variety of materials (often from the scrap bin) and make what I need directly on demand... The materials seem more sturdy than some of the resins used for some processes, and if I use aluminum, much better than some of the pot metal-like stuff... And I'm often working on existing parts/materials, so if I'm adding some work to it (not starting from scratch), and I can decide how hard or easy I would like this process to be, so that would save me from a more complicated CAD/CAM design, and it might be more complicated setting up for holding these parts down for the machine to do it's thing... CAD/CAM makes much more sense to me if several (or many) identical parts needed to be made from scratch...

Steve K

For short series always there is the choice of printing a PE mold of the part, instead the ABS part itsef, and then filling it with resin+accelerator, then you can even mix cut fiber glass to reinforce it, and/or glass microspheres to make a very light part, even you can place titanium wire inside the mold... also you can make a silicone mold for complex parts... I'm very happy with the Sinar to CAMBO board adapter I made.

3D printed parts are not as nice as mahogany and titanium... of course, but it's very straight if one can use Solidworks or Inventor

I've also been using SolidCAM in my job, CAM machining is more expensive and less prone to DIY, but results can look "professional crafting".



In another thread here a UK member had a conical lens board made by 3D printing, it wasn't expensive. It was for an MPP MicroTechnical, they use a conical board (opposite of recessed but not as severe as a top-hat) to allow the use of a 90mm WA keeping the standard on the inner rails.

Ian

For that kind of applications 3D printing it's a direct solution, if one masters 3D CAD in 15min you can make a nice complex design, then you press "print"...

Also very useful to fit old shutters, etc...

barnacle
22-Sep-2016, 12:10
but it's very straight if one can use Solidworks or Inventor

Or happens to work in an office designing the electronics and software right next to the mech eng boys who use them :)

Neil

Dan Fromm
22-Sep-2016, 15:24
One issue that can come up with using adapter boards is if using a axis swing/tilt, well designed camera is that the camera movements will center/pivot at the rear nodal point area of the rear lens, so lens movements will stay nicely in focus as you move them... If you add distance forward from it, more re-focusing will be required the further it is away (as it moves), so if the adapter is too thick, you loose this great feature of the design...

Steve, this really depends on the adapter. For example, skgrimes married a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic front standard to a Cambo board for me. The front of the standard is a hair behind the front of the board. It accepts lenses on 2x3 Pacemaker boards, adds ~ -0.5 mm of extension.

LabRat
22-Sep-2016, 18:36
Steve, this really depends on the adapter. For example, skgrimes married a 2x3 Pacemaker Graphic front standard to a Cambo board for me. The front of the standard is a hair behind the front of the board. It accepts lenses on 2x3 Pacemaker boards, adds ~ -0.5 mm of extension.

Absolutely!!! If an adapter is close, it will preserve this great feature, but if an adapter is so chunky that it adds a more than a quarter or half inch or so more extension past the nodal/pivot zone, a lot of trial & error focusing will be required after any little tilt/swing movements are applied... This issue will also pop-up when making/using a "top hat" extender board, mounting a barrel lens in front of a large shutter, back extensions past the RS pivot points, etc... Point is to allow lenses to pivot about close to the rear of the iris area when designing adapters, or it gets a little screwy when using a nicely designed axis tilt camera... Doing complex movements becomes a breeze, as you can try a little of this or that movement and watch the GG to see what happens while the image stays in good general focus... Some axis tilt cameras use this, including the fabulous GVII... :-)

Steve K

Leigh
22-Sep-2016, 22:31
One issue that can come up with using adapter boards is if using a axis swing/tilt, well designed camera is that the camera movements will center/pivot at the rear nodal point area of the rear lens
Hi Seve,

That can only be true for a very small selection of lenses, with focal lengths very close to the "normal" FL.
Even within that select group, the rear nodal point will move based on the lens design and actual focal length.

As the FL decreases, the rear node moves toward the film, often completely behind the rear element.
With telephoto lenses the rear node is in front of the front element, sometimes by a considerable distance.

- Leigh

Pere Casals
23-Sep-2016, 02:34
Or happens to work in an office designing the electronics and software right next to the mech eng boys who use them :)

Neil


I use the Altium package... if you are using something like that then you'll learn Solidworks basics in 30min... Then you "save as" the part as *.STL and that can be printed in any 3D pinter service, or at home.

IanG
23-Sep-2016, 02:48
This thread is important, if it goes well :D

Yesterday I began making a converter to use Linhof/Wista boards on an MPP Micro Technical MkIII, there's more on another thread. It's simple, extremely cheap and easy, and willwork well. I just need to cut out the center later and it's fiished except for painting.

I make lens boards and conversion boards regularly, and I've just finished two to adapt Wista/Linhof boards to fit my 2 Agfa Ansco 10x8's (a Commercial View and a Universal View). I've also made a converter board for one of my Seneca 7x5 cameras as well, again to use my Wista lenses.

I'm planning to making converters to use Pacemaker Graphic boards on the same cameras. I hate the fact that LF lenses aren't easily used on quite different cameras but am getting much nearer better simple nter-chaneability.

Ian