Carl Zeiss 250mm f/5.6 Sonnar in Prontor shutter for Linhof

[Ellis Vener]

A very generous friend just passed on to me a mint condition Carl Zeiss 250mm f/5.6 Sonnar. Looks like a fine lens with no element separation but does anyone here have recent experience with one?


And can anyone tell me the most likely vintage?

it is mostly black with a silver chrome ring around the front end of the lens. Serial number is 2767###

Thanks,

Ellis

[Darin Boville]

I used to own 250 Sonnar but that was a Zeiss for Hasselblad...is that the one you are talking about?

--Darin

[Gem Singer]

Hey Ellis,

It's been over three years since you posted on this forum.

How the heck are you? What have you been up to?

Can't help with your question, but good to hear from you again.

[Ellis Vener]

I used to own 250 Sonnar but that was a Zeiss for Hasselblad...is that the one you are talking about?

--Darin

No. I know that lens but this one is a large format lens.

[Ellis Vener]

gem:

Photographically engaged in (in the order of time spent): Writing, shooting and reading.

[Gem Singer]

Hope you hang around here or a while, Ellis. We can use your expertise.

[Henry Carter]

This lens was part of the classic Zeiss trio designed for the 4x5 Linhof Technika - the 75 mm Biogon, 135 mm Planar, and 250 mm Sonnar. In the 1960's and 70's this was the ultimate set of lenses for one of the world's ultimate 4x5 cameras - the Linhof Technika.

The 75 and 135 are legendary lenses, designed to perform well wide open, but I am not sure about the 250 Sonnar or how it compares to a modern telephoto design like the Schneider 250 mm Apo-tele-Xenar. Given its pedigree, I am sure that it will not let you down.

Enjoy the results!

[Henry Carter]

According to the 4th edition of 'Linhof Practice' (Munich 1963), in the description of 'The Zeiss Lens Set for the Super Technika IV' (page 99), the general features in common to all 3 lenses (75 Biogon, 135 Planar, 250 Sonnar) include: "They are fully corrected at full aperture. Definition is sharp to the corners, with acurate rendering of all horizontal and vertical detail".

Looks like the 250 Sonnar can also be used at larger apertures (or wide open) with good results.

The current production Schneider 250 apo-tele-xenar is a wonderful portrait lens for 4x5 and performs very well at f/11. I will try it even wider...

[Ellis Vener]

I haven't shot with it yet but I am pretty sure this is not a telephoto design. it might be as it is a big heavy combination of steel and glass. It certainly got the attention of the TSA when I was flying home yesterday.

[Henry Carter]

Hi Ellis,

In a slightly more recent publication, 'Large Format Photography', Grossbild-Technik GMBH, Munich 1973, on pg. 124 'The Zeiss Set of Lenses for the 4x5 in Technika' are described as follows:

"For maximum performance in the 4x5 in./9x12 cm format three lenses have been computed which taken together form a complete set and which were designed according to the most modern principles. The common characteristics of all three lenses are: Complete optical correction, sharpness right into the corners, freedom from distortion, optimum clour correction - all at full aperture".

The 3 lenses are pictured on pg. 125, and all share a similar silver ring at the end of their black casings.

There is also a more detailed description of the 250 mm Sonnar f/5.6:

"This lens is completely free from the edge distotion common to many telephoto lenses, special attention having been given to this point. Notwithstanding this, it has still been possible to keep the extension short as with other telephoto lenses. The Sonnar thus offers particularly valuable advantages: the camera extension remains conveniently short and the camera can easily be used without a tripod, whilst yet giving an image of adequate size from a relatively distant viewpoint".

Good to have you back on the Forum, your intelligent contributions have been missed!

[Allen in Montreal]

A very generous friend just passed on to me a mint condition Carl Zeiss 250mm f/5.6 Sonnar. Looks like a fine lens with no element separation but does anyone here have recent experience with one? .......


Ellis

Ellis,

I have never used that piece of glass, but the good friend of my father, who gave me his 135 Planar when he retired from the business, had the Sonnar too and loved it.

I can only think of one color image I ever saw him take (or display anyway) 99.9 percent of his work was B+W and printed in house. I am sure you will enjoy the lens.

[rdenney]

I haven't shot with it yet but I am pretty sure this is not a telephoto design. it might be as it is a big heavy combination of steel and glass. It certainly got the attention of the TSA when I was flying home yesterday.

If it is a Sonnar design (and it should be), then you are correct that it is not a telephoto design. The original Sonnar was a normal lens, but was unusable as such in modern SLR's because it wouldn't fit in front of a mirror box. So, Zeiss used the design for longer lenses.

A characteristic of the classic Sonnars that I've observed is a slight bit of undercorrected spherical aberration at wide aperture, which improves as you stop down at about the same pace as the depth of field improves. Thus, it provides a predictable rendering of out-of-focus details. And it's famous for the smoothness of that rendering.

Even the cheap (by comparison) East German Sonnars made in Jena after the war display that characteristic.

So, don't miss the opportunity to make some images at wider apertures.

Edit: Reading Henry's recounting of the advertisement for this lens, maybe it is a modern telephoto Sonnar rather than a classic Sonnar. Maybe not. The original Sonnar was a 5 cm f/1.5 normal lens for the Contax rangefinder, but even as a normal lens, the glass was somewhat behind the rear nodal point, which is, I suppose the definition of a telephoto. But it wasn't really intended to be a telephoto. It was intended to be fast, with very thick elements cemented together to provide good correction without too many glass/air surfaces. It was better corrected at large apertures than a Tessar by leaps and bounds, and before coatings made planars and plasmats practical, it was a real speed king. The longer focal design was used as a long lens, and indeed it was the first fast long lens for 35mm--the Olympia Sonnar.

Rick "betting this could be a classic sharp portrait lens" Denney

[Henry Carter]

If it is a 250 mm Sonnar for Linhof, then it is most likely the 4X5 telephoto design described in my previous post.

A simple way to answer the question is to focus the lens at infinity and measure the distance between the lens board and the ground glass (flange focal distance). If it is significantly less than 250 mm, you are dealing with a telephoto design.

For example, the current production Schneider 250 mm apo-tele-xenar has a focal length of 250 mm with a flange focal distance of 195 mm at infinity.

[Roger Krueger]

People get all drooly over Sonnar bokeh--no bright rings, double lines, etc. Astonishingly expensive on ebay.

[rdenney]

People get all drooly over Sonnar bokeh--no bright rings, double lines, etc. Astonishingly expensive on ebay.

It depends on which Zeiss. The Carl Zeiss Jena sonnars have the same bokeh that people get all drooly over, and they are relatively cheap. But they don't come in configurations that work on large-format cameras.

Example 1: 180/2.8 CZJ Sonnar in Pentacon Six mount (easily adapted to Mamiya, Contax, and Pentax 645 cameras, and to most 35mm cameras, plus fits directly on Pentacon Six, Exakta 66, Kiev 60, and Kiev 88CM). The multicoated later model seems to usually be priced in the $200-300 range. They are not as common as they used to be, but they still come up pretty frequently on ebay.

Example 2: 135/3.5 CZJ Sonnar in M42 mount (easily adapted to Canon and Pentax K, plus fitting on all screw-mount bodies, such as the Praktica and early Pentax, plus many others). I paid $80 for mine in the multicoated version, but they get a bit more now. There were approximately 5,674,293 different 135mm lenses made for 35mm cameras over the years, and this is one of the best that doesn't cost a fortune.

Both these provide that drooly bokeh.

Rick "unwilling to pay the western Zeiss prices" Denney

[Joerg Krusche]

hi,

the 250 sonnar for the Tech is not identical with the hasselblad 250 sonnar -- different number of elements,

best,

joerg

[Ellis Vener]

hi,

the 250 sonnar for the Tech is not identical with the hasselblad 250 sonnar -- different number of elements,

best,

joerg

Quite right , it is a very different lens. Now all I have to do is find a good camera to mount it on that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.