Problems with ADOX

[Kaden Kratzer]

I just shot my first Adox 120mm, ISO 25 ART.
I used ADOX ATM 49 as a developer at 1+2 6.5m 20c.

The film has lines and blotches on it. I am positive this
isn't a camera problem as I used a Fujifilm GW690III Pro 6x9
which has an extremely sharp lens. Here is the result and
problem:

http://www.pbase.com/dehl/image/115527481

My friend also had problems with ADOX CHS in 4x5 in regards
to humidity and water retention.

Adox problems anyone else? What's with this film?

[Sevo]

IIRC Adox CHS 25 is the same as EFKE 25, a film which always has been very hard to develop and won't forgive any errors. One of the few films around for fourty years, thanks to the excellent quality it can deliver in the hands of those that had the patience to master it - but anybody who is not into a full run of 15s agitations without ever missing the beat by more than a second should probably pick a more modern and user-friendly film.

[Drew Wiley]

To the contrary, once you learn a few simple tricks this is a very easy film to develop.
I routinely use PMK and a Jobo hand-inversion reel and tank, typically 6 min dev with
an inversion cyle every 30sec, just like I do for all 120 and 35mm films - no difference
in my agitation pattern whatsoever. The gelatin on this film is a little different than
Kodak, Ilford, or Fuji films. Don't use temperatures much above 20C (68F) for either
processing or the rinse. If you use a stop bath, make sure it is very weak. Once the
film is dry it doesn't seem any more fragile than any other film. I've processed many
rolls of this stuff with no problem whatsoever.

[Kaden Kratzer]

Thanks for the responses.

I pre-soaked it for a minute when in general I do it for 30 secs.
The agitation was every 30 secs without any problems before with any other films.
I am used a Kodak stopper.
The temperature was around 68/69F.

I have 2 new rolls to develop and I may do it with another developer to test it and
I will try it at 15 secs agitation with water as a stopper. Lets see.

[IanG]

It's your processing technique rather than the film. Make sure the spiral isn't rising up the column if it's a plastic tank, that can happen so the film's not fully submerged in the developer.

Ian

[Kaden Kratzer]

Thanks for the help folks. I tried a second roll and its much better though not perfect.
I am now looking at the pre-soaking as the guilty party. I may just bypass it altogether
next time and see what happens. Judge for yourselves:

http://www.pbase.com/dehl/image/115557695

http://www.pbase.com/dehl/image/115558361

[jvuokko]

Interesting. I am also testing CHS 25 Art. My first test shows that the image quality is excellent, but there's something in my developing style that caused some uneveness (at least I guess that it's the reason for uneveness).
My agitation was one minute constant inversions, then three inversions at each minute. I have used same agitation pattern almost 20 years now without any problems.

I Did use presoak and normal acid stop bath (kodak stop bath, 1.3%).

Developer was Rodinal 1+100, next time I'll use Pyrocat-HD as it is tanning developer so at least the emulsion is not so vulnerable (and I hope that the curliness of the developed film would be lesser). For future, I am going to get some hardener to use during presoak.

Overall I already like the spectral sensivity and I am going to test this at 4x5 size.

The only thing that really concerns me is the rumours about dangers of higher developing temperatures. I cannot go much below 24 degrees celcius. Perhaps with constant cooling, I can get as low as 22 degrees. But 20, no way.

[Kaden Kratzer]

Jukka let me suggest to you that this film has some quirks. The first roll with a 1 minute pre-soak generated blotches and lines on the negative. The second roll I
pre-soaked at 30 seconds and it was a visible improvement. Next I will try a pre-
soak at 15 seconds.

I believe that there is a strange correlation here between the development and
the pre-soak. My friend used Rodinal and I used ADOX ATM 49 as a developer
and we both get to the end and after drying there are still gelatine film/tape
for the lack of a better descriptor on the film. This is been our experience so
far.

I am positive that once we figure all the quirks this film has an immense potential.

[Jim MacKenzie]

I seem to recall that presoaking is discouraged with this film. I'd recommend trying a roll without a presoak at all and see if that solves your problem.

[Jiri Vasina]

Well, I use Adox 25 in 5x8" (and in 120 rolls) and like it a lot. I have had no problems with it (so far). My development routine is:

Both sizes are developed in Jobo 2800 tank on Unicolor Uniroller motor base for continuous agitation. Presoak 1minute. Development in Rodinal 1:50 for 9:30min. Water stop bath (twice). Fixer (Fomafix) for 4-5min. Rinse.

No problems with uneven development or anything like... I really like the film (it then scans very well, is much less prone to Newton rings than Fomapan 100 or Wephota NP 15).

Jiri

[jvuokko]

Thanks, trying next 120 roll without presoak and perhaps with water stop bath.

I have used CHS 100 Art a lot in sheet film size, always with presoak and tanning developer so it was a bit suprise that 25 (especially roll film) is so sensitive to developing process. I guess that sheet films are easier. CHS 100 Art is really easy to cope with.

BTW: Here's nice example how curly the CHS 25 Art is in 120 size...

[Jiri Vasina]

Yes, Jukka, it's very curly in rolls. But if you'd have tried also Rollei Retro 400 film, you'd say that Adox 25 is flat (in comparison). The Rollei kept curling as much as you show in the pictures even after 3 weeks kept under a stack of books.

Jiri

[Kaden Kratzer]

Just finished processing roll #3 an finally I am satisfied. No more jelly film or residue at the end and all seems just fine. Changed my processing routine slightly and used Xtol
this time around. Here:

1. No pre-soaking
2. Developed on Xtol 6:30m with agitation at 15 secs
3. Used Kodak Stop bath - 30 secs (continuous agitation)
4 Fixer for 7m with agitation at 15 secs
5. Water at 20C for 30 secs (continuous agitation)
6. Perma-wash 90 secs (continuous agitation)
7. Wash in water - 10m
8. Photo-Flo 30 secs (continuous agitation)

Squeegee and dry

[Kaden Kratzer]

I have not had curling problems.

[Paul H]

I always pre-soak this film (and CHS100) in both sheet and roll film variants for a couple of minutes.

Development is usually Rodinal 1+100 for 17 minutes for roll film, or PC-TEA 1+50 for around 9-10 minutes in a Paterson Orbital for sheet film. I always keep the temperature at 20C, and use a water stop bath. I've not had problems with uneven development, nor pinhole damage, and the only damaged emulsion has been due to my own carelessness.

[Kaden Kratzer]

Thanks Paul I will try next with Rodinal.

Here is what the processing with XTOL test looks like:
http://www.pbase.com/dehl/image/115600437

I was pleased but will use a filter next time.

[Don Dudenbostel]

I've run a few hundred rolls of 120 and 35mm and never had a problem. I do no pre soak and run in Rodinal 1:100. I always run in stainless steel tanks with stainless reels. I have no experience with plastic but I would guess that you would have problems if the developer doesn't cover the film quickly.

[sidmac]

We had a similar problem with Arista 200. I think a Cold Light might improve the situation.
Sidmac

[Chris Jones]

I have used this film in both 120 and 4X5 in a two reel Paterson tank and a HP Combi tank with good results, despite the 25 seconds needed to fill the HP Combi tank.

Gentle inversion agitation of 30 seconds followed by 10 secs each 60 secs with Rodinal 1+100 for 18 minutes at 20 C seems my best standard combination, for now. ID11 or D76 1+1 for 8 mins at 20C also produce higher contrast yet still printable negs (with a condenser enlarger) although I have to test this more. I hope to have a try with HC 110 since this seems a good mismatch?