Technique on sheet film in tubes

[Eric Woodbury]

After many years of a Jobo Expert drum on a motor base, I want to switch over to tubes. I'm processing 45 and 57 in ABS tubes that I made that are similar to BTZS tubes. I start with dry film in the top and developer in the bottom of the tube. To start I put the tube in a tray of water and spin it for 30 sec and then for 5 sec every 30 sec until done. In between, the tubes floats in the tray level in the tray. When done, I take them apart (in the dark) and flood the tubes with water. Then the negs go into the fix tray for a few minutes before the lights come on. I'm not presoaking the film.

The developer is 510.Pyro for now. I've been using PMK since time began, but I'm looking for something more convenient.

So, does this sound similar to other tube users? Am I sinning for lack of presoak. The negs look okay, altho I'm still getting calibrated.

Thanks

[Brian Ellis]

I used BTZS tubes for 4x5 and 8x10 for about 12 years, in PMK for about one of those years. But since you're planning to abandon PMK (which I did too) no need to talk about using it in BTZS tubes. Except for the fling with PMK, I always used Kodak D76 1-1 in the tubes.

You don't need to presoak, I never did with the tubes (or with trays for that matter, which I used with 8x10 for a brief and painful time) and never had a problem. Ilford used to specifically recommend against presoaking their films (or maybe it was just HP5+), I'm not sure if they still do.

Your system of development is very similar to what I did except that I rolled the tubes constantly in a water jacket, 10 times in one direction and 10 times in the other. I thought the constant agitation helped with even development in tubes but I have no real evidence that it really did.

If you used stop bath instead of water you could do everything in light once the film was loaded and tubes capped. I filled a pan with stop bath and just unscrewed the caps and moved the tubes from developer to the pan with the lights on as Phil Davis suggests and never had a problem. But I wouldn't do that with water since water doesn't necessarily immediately stop development as stop bath does.

So with a couple minor variations you're doing it as I did, which means you're doing it right : - )

[jeroldharter]

I agree with Brian above. I do it slightly differently though. After developer, I open the tube, immerse it in a tray of stop bath, and spin it. The safelight is on. I complete processing of the rest of the tubes in the tray. I spin the tubes in the tray constantly, periodically shuffling them in the order. Once all of the tubes are in the stop tray, I remove the sheet from the tube and place it in a 6-tray slosher in the fixer. Then I turn on the room lights and continuously agitate the slosher. I can see the film clear which is always exciting or dismaying. Then I move the slosher to hypoclear which also helps remove the anti-halation dye before washing. The slosher trays are also less tedious to agitate than the tubes. I don't have a slosher tray for 8x10 tubes.

[Oren Grad]

I used BTZS tubes briefly before I got my Jobo. My technique pretty much followed what Phil recommended and was similar to Brian's, with the key point being that I kept the tubes moving throughout. The amount of solution in the tubes wasn't nearly enough to fill the tube and keep the sheet fully immersed, so I figured that intermittent agitation would be begging for uneven development.

[kev curry]

This video might help.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXQO5ATgiY

This is the first part of a two part video, you can find part two on the same page.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I gave up presoaking film before sticking them in the tube for both 4x5 and 8x10. It's pointless. I didn't like that fact that the film would slide around inside whilst rotating. With no presoak, the film sticks to the sides. Anti-halation and other coatings clears in the fixer.
I'm suprised that you let the tubes rest for 30 seconds!! I would be concerned about getting development lines.
PMK is not a good developer for tubes, IMO. If you must use a staining developer, use Sandy King's Pyrocat-HD. I've been using it for years in both trays and tubes.

[Bruce Watson]

I did the opposite. Went from BTZS tubes to a Jobo 3010 tank. Got much better results from the 3010, so never looked back.

But what works for one person won't necessarily work for anyone else; you should use the workflow with which you are most comfortable and gets you the results you desire.

All that said, your system sounds similar to mine when I was using BTZS tubes, with the exception of using a stop bath. With the tubes I found it much easier to use a stop bath -- just an 8x10 tray. I'd turn the tubes up on end to drain the developer back into the cap, unscrew the tube and immediately place it in the stop bath tray and roll it. I did this in subdued light so I could see what I was doing. This stopped the development cold and let me easily handle six negatives one right after the other. After I got them all in the stop I'd peel the film out of the tubes (always stuck like glue to the tubes) and toss 'em in the fixer.

Like Brian, I also turned the tubes continuously during development. Couldn't find a way to cure the uneven development I got in skies every so often though. And no, no pre-soak.

[Ed Pierce]

I've found that a presoak is necessary with btzs tubes, tmx/tmy in tmax rs. I was getting lines on the back of the film marking where the wet/dry line was. These lines showed up on the print in areas of smooth tone, like a clear sky. Presoaking the film eliminated the problem. Yes they do slide around a little bit inside the tube, but I haven't noted any problems from this.

[sanking]

I've found that a presoak is necessary with btzs tubes, tmx/tmy in tmax rs. I was getting lines on the back of the film marking where the wet/dry line was. These lines showed up on the print in areas of smooth tone, like a clear sky. Presoaking the film eliminated the problem. Yes they do slide around a little bit inside the tube, but I haven't noted any problems from this.



There are pros and cons for and against a presoak but on the whole I think that the presoak has advantages. Without a presoak I have actaully had film stick so tightly to the inside wall of the tube that it was impossible to remove it without damaging the film. So at the very least I recommend prewetting the film so that it does not stick to the wall. The film is pretty tight in the tubes I use and no way for it to slide around very much.


Sandy King

[Michael Jones]

Brian's technique and mine are remarkably similar (duh, we attended the same BTZS workshop). Pyro PMK did not provide good results in tubes, but D-76 sure does.

I did no pre-wet, but give constant rotation. I also thump alternating ends of the tubes every minute so they bob in the bath, as well as rotate.

Good luck.

Mike