I let a MONSTER in my house...

[Mike1234]

I may have made a miskrate, folks.

I just bought a 150mm Nikkor-SW and it is a huge beast. I acquired it to cover 5x12.5 inch pano pics but now I think I should have waited for a used 150mm SS XL to pop up. I should either return this Nikkor behemoth or re-sell it to someone in better physical condition who can lug beasts like this around. Or I'll trade it for a 150mm SS XL and a bit of cash your way. This lens covers more than the SS XL but the weight really is an issue for me.

If I decide to sell/trade I'll post in the classifieds along with a bunch of other things.

[Doug Dolde]

For a minute I thought you got married.

[percepts]

For a minute I thought you got married.
Nah, that's called "Starting a sequence of events over which you have no further control".

[Mike1234]

No... not married... did that one time... lost my "manly parts"... NEVER AGAIN!! :eek:

[Mike1234]

BTW, without mentioning the company name, this lens arrived in somewhat less than their 9+ condition rating... as well as the seller's verbal description. I haven't really considered returning it because it's really a very nice lens.

The difference in opinon is just a few very small cosmetic abrasions on the barrels but, more importantly, a couple of tiny (invisible to naked eye) coating scratches. These aren't anywhere near able to affect images in any way but everything together does degrade the value of the lens approximately $300-400 from what I paid for it. When I mentioned these things to the seller he seemed a bit upset and said I could return it for a refund. I was hoping he would offer some credit for a future purchase or work with me somewhow. Heck, I bought $2000 worth of goods from this company... three lenses and two large retaining rings. I expected a little more support from a company with such a good reputation.

[Aender Brepsom]

Why don't you just return it if you are not totally happy? I would if I were you. You'll soon find another lens that suits your needs better.

[Mike1234]

I could return it but I want to be certain my decision is in no way affected by its overwhelming size/weight, which is an issue for me. I will only return it if I feel the seller misrepresented the lens in some way. I feel certain they did even though it was probably unintentional. I'll probably return it unless I can re-sell it for what I have in it... but that would have to be very, very soon because return privilege time is short.

After "thinking out loud" here and with further consideration, I would not ask more than $850-900 for this lens and may not even get $750 (this would be a very good deal for someone though). That's a $250-400 loss for me. Of course this is with full disclosure and careful description. Unless the seller works with me to make this right it's definitely going back.

Thanks for the advice.

[Scott Schroeder]

hmmmmm......I was expecting something a little bigger.
:)
my monster looks like this:
http://www.schroederworks.com/Pics/4B__04.JPG

[Mike1234]

Ya' know though... this thing so gosh darned pretty it's almost worth the investment just to look at it. Having second thoughts... third thoughts...

BTW, the coating marks really are invisible without magnification. I definitely don't blame the seller for missing them. Still...

[Mike1234]

Scott... You don't carry that thing into the field, do you?! :eek:

[BrianShaw]

I imagine it would look a lot bigger than it does inthat picture if you "polished the brass". :eek:

[iamjanco]

hmmmmm......I was expecting something a little bigger.
:)
my monster looks like this:
http://www.schroederworks.com/Pics/4B__04.JPG

...and I was about to ask if the original lens in question is heavier than the 360 Symmar S I received yesterday, but I can see Scott's got me beat by a mile (is that a lens or a chimney pipe?). Actually, seeing Scott's lens, I have to wonder how much ownership of such a grandiose specimen of optical engineering is driven by the want to inflict abuse upon one's self.

Scott, you don't tie a rope around your neck when you're using that lens, do you? :D

[Kirk Gittings]

What the heck do I do with this thread? It is a mess. Sorry all, I don't have time to pick through all the vitriol to figure out who did what. I've been on a 15 hour shoot and I am exhausted. So sorry for the broad brush, but that is all I have the energy for. Mike, we are a couple of volunteers with lives and cannot watch the forum full time. Don't like the attitude? Report it and don't keep adding to it. Walk away. Did you officially post your problem with this thread? If you didn't, just complaining in the thread is pointless. We won't see it.

Come on guys.

[Darin Boville]

Wow! I've never seen anything like this on this board. Look at all the blue stripes!

--Darin

[kev curry]

There was reasons to believe that this thread was a possible scam. And as a result a discussion ensued to get to the bottom of what was going on.
I cant speak for anyone else here, but for you to delete my post with the inaccurate claim that they were ''off topic, personal attacks, name calling, etc. etc. etc'' is a misrepresentation of the contents of my posts.

Buy the time I left the discussion a 02:42 relations between Mike1234 and myself were light, friendly and completely amicable, I'm sure Mike1234 would back me on this.

With all due respect Kirk I think It would have been better if you had let someone else deal with this thread or a least waited until you were in a position to treat it with some objectivity.







What the heck do I do with this thread? It is a mess. Sorry all, I don't have time to pick through all the vitriol to figure out who did what. I've been on a 15 hour shoot and I am exhausted. So sorry for the broad brush, but that is all I have the energy for. Mike, we are a couple of volunteers with lives and cannot watch the forum full time. Don't like the attitude? Report it and don't keep adding to it. Walk away. Did you officially post your problem with this thread? If you didn't, just complaining in the thread is pointless. We won't see it.

Come on guys.

[BrianShaw]

Kirk... have you seen the "deleted" thread over at APUG. You'd win an award for your performance here!

[BrianShaw]

... :) :d

[Mike1234]

Kirk...

As you know, I'm new here. I'm sorry for... whatever I might have written that set a couple of people off and starting this charade. I went through my posts but I never figured it out.

[Peter De Smidt]

You wrote a post that was viewed as suspicious. When people, including experienced members of the community, voiced their suspicions, you became combative and resorted to vulgar language and name-calling. I suggest that next time someone criticizes you, you either ignore it or simply explain why the criticism misses the point. Neither of those options involves becoming agitated, as you clearly were in this thread.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Even the title of the thread seems inflammatory.

[Mike1234]

You wrote a post that was viewed as suspicious. When people, including experienced members of the community, voiced their suspicions, you became combative and resorted to vulgar language and name-calling. I suggest that next time someone criticizes you, you either ignore it or simply explain why the criticism misses the point. Neither of those options involves becoming agitated, as you clearly were in this thread.

I didn't start the vulgarities. Members here did. BTW, I know for a fact that moderators can go back and read what really happened from beginning to end. Before you start pointng fingers... again... I suggest you think about that for a moment.

[Mike1234]

Even the title of the thread seems inflammatory.

Why do you say that???

[iamjanco]

I know this can be a touchy topic, but might I make a recommendation that when a person feels they have been been dealt with less than fairly in a transaction (regardless of how, when, where, and the medium used to facilitate that transaction), they find some other way than by way of this forum to straighten things out? Yes, it might be good to know who not to deal with if one or more transactions goes sour, but it's probably not this forum's purpose to get involved in grievances among or between private parties, nor the responsibility of any of this forum's subscribers to serve in a role as arbitrator (indeed, were there anyone suitably qualified to fill that role).

As far as I know, there's really only one place where anything associated with transactions should be posted: the For Sale/Wanted section. Additionally, when using information in that section to conduct transactions, folks should be aware of the posted disclaimer that says "Use of this area is strictly at your own risk." That probably means if you do end up having problems associated with a transaction, you should look elsewhere than this forum for the purposes of arbitrating/mediating a resolution.

There, I'm done sounding like a lawyer.

[Mike1234]

I know this can be a touchy topic, but might I make a recommendation that when a person feels they have been been dealt with less than fairly in a transaction (regardless of how, when, where, and the medium used to facilitate that transaction), they find some other way than by way of this forum to straighten things out? Yes, it might be good to know who not to deal with if one or more transactions goes sour, but it's probably not this forum's purpose to get involved in grievances among or between private parties, nor the responsibility of any of this forum's subscribers to serve in a role as arbitrator (indeed, were there anyone suitably qualified to fill that role).

As far as I know, there's really only one place where anything associated with transactions should be posted: the For Sale/Wanted section. Additionally, when using information in that section to conduct transactions, folks should be aware of the posted disclaimer that says "Use of this area is strictly at your own risk." That probably means if you do end up having problems associated with a transaction, you should look elsewhere than this forum for the purposes of arbitrating/mediating a resolution.

There, I'm done sounding like a lawyer.

Point well-taken and accepted. I was just seeking informal advice. In fact, I didn't even start this thread with that idea in mind. I steered off course and this may have been the beginning of the problem.

Still... to be accused of "fishing for suckers", "scamming", etc., was completely uncalled for. Then to be accused of being the "bad guy" here after I simply tried to defend myself is truly inexcusable.

Who runs this place anyway? The mods or a select few arrogant bullies?

[rdenney]

Who runs this place anyway? The mods or a select few arrogant bullies?

It would appear to me--and just now is the first I have looked at this thread--that the entire discussion along those lines got pulled, including the posts of all of your combatants. I don't think I would interpret anything personal. Just chalk it up to experience and move on.

Moderators on forums don't run the place. The participants run it. The mods are the last line of defense in maintaining the standards--but each of us should be the first line of defense.

I've attracted quite a few attacks on various forums over my long Internet life, but I learned pretty quickly that responding in kind does not achieve a positive result. I learned that it's always better to attenuate heat than to magnify it, no matter who starts what. After all, I can't control what others write, but I can choose how I respond to them.

I absolutely agree with iamjamco that the forum should not be used to voice grievances. There's no way for the forum's readers to judge the truth, and it usually goes in favor of who has been around the longest or who writes most believably, neither of which may reflect what should happen. There are other mechanisms for addressing such issues that are founded in appropriate legal processes.

I'm not an old hand in this forum by any means, but these are issues common to all forums, and each has to find its own way to address it.

Rick "respectfully submitted" Denney

[Mike1234]

Rick,

That is all good advice. FWIW, I did (at least I thought I did) try to squelch the flames rather than fan them. However, in the midst of it all I did fight back. I guess I felt I had no choice. Sometimes fighting truly is our only choice... either fight or get beaten to a pulp. It's just a fact of life.

Respectfully,
Mike "not the brightest bulb in the socket" Parrish

[redrockcoulee]

Mike

I was not going to post again but your last posting (24)sort of changed my mind. For my part I simply tried to explain how others such as the seller may have different views than yourself and that does not make either party wrong or dishonest. I never accused you of any wrong doing at all. In return you swore at me, told be to shut up in an very impolite manner which I find extremely objectionable and should not be tolerated on any forum, etc. You insulted Gem, told Kev you were more honest than he would ever be etc and then repeatedly called on the moderator to censor everyone else.

I had suggested that you cool down and read all the postings the next day in a clear light and yet you still think that you were attacked by bullies. I posted nothing that I would not have said to a moderator, another poster, my best friend or my spouse and yet got your responses. I do not understand you. And the name calling continues... perhaps I am an arrogant bully if that means someone who does not share your opinion but remember it was you yelling at others not the other way around.

Kirk

I understand the spot this thread put you through and although I have not said anything I would have to apologise for except the error in typing 10X instead of 10+ I do regret ever having joined into the discussion due to the turn it developed. Feel free to delete this posting if you think it is objectionable or even the entire thread.

[BrianShaw]

ding - ding- ding

ROUND TWO!

[Mike1234]

redrockcoulee...

This only after having the same done to me. I didn't start this arguement. If I offended you unrightfully then I'm truly very sorry. Please remember what kind of beating I was taking at the time from several members here. Wouldn't you have been offended by what they were saying? If I did offend you unrightfully I was grouping you in the same lot as those who were beating me to a pulp at the time.

Gem insulted me first and without any provocation. Kev, at first, did the same. Kev did change his tone for which I'm truly grateful.

I was absolutely attacked by bullies. They indeed were accusational, name calling, shouting vulgarities, etc. They were completely out of control. The mods can go back and see that at their leisure. My only regret is stooping to their level of stupidity and childishness.

Again, please remember the moderators can go back and read all posts even after they are deleted from our viewing.

Kirk,

I realize your time is at a premium and you volunteer for this duty. If you ever find the time please go back and see for yourself what really happened here.

[Mike1234]

ding - ding- ding

ROUND TWO!


Oh, for Pete's sake... Why is this a fight? Please tell me this is not what this forum is all about.

[Peter De Smidt]

Rick,
However, in the midst of it all I did fight back. I guess I felt I had no choice. Sometimes fighting truly is our only choice... either fight or get beaten to a pulp. It's just a fact of life.


All you had to do was politely and reasonably explain how your initial post was either unclear or mis-interpreted. Your "either fight or get beaten to a pulp" is a false dilemma. If people respond to your explanation inappropriately, then they'll look bad, not you. If you attact, which you admit that you did, then you'll look bad and be responsible for adding unpleasantness to the community.

"It's far worse to commit a wrong than to suffer it." Socrates, as depicted in Plato's Crito.

[Mike1234]

Peter...

I tried to explain my intentions but the attacks continued. Yes, I did fight back. I admit it. I felt as though I was backed into a corner. My honor and integrity were being slammed by people who know nothing about me. Does this make it right to fight back? In this particular situation I say yes, it does. What right did they have to slander me? My reputation here will never be as it should be after all those unwarranted accustions stained it. Why? What was their point?

[kev curry]

BTW, without mentioning the company name, this lens arrived in somewhat less than their 9+ condition rating... as well as the seller's verbal description. I haven't really considered returning it because it's really a very nice lens.

The difference in opinon is just a few very small cosmetic abrasions on the barrels but, more importantly, a couple of tiny (invisible to naked eye) coating scratches. These aren't anywhere near able to affect images in any way but everything together does degrade the value of the lens approximately $300-400 from what I paid for it. When I mentioned these things to the seller he seemed a bit upset and said I could return it for a refund. I was hoping he would offer some credit for a future purchase or work with me somewhow. Heck, I bought $2000 worth of goods from this company... three lenses and two large retaining rings. I expected a little more support from a company with such a good reputation.


I could return it but I want to be certain my decision is in no way affected by its overwhelming size/weight, which is an issue for me. I will only return it if I feel the seller misrepresented the lens in some way. I feel certain they did even though it was probably unintentional. I'll probably return it unless I can re-sell it for what I have in it... but that would have to be very, very soon because return privilege time is short.

After "thinking out loud" here and with further consideration, I would not ask more than $850-900 for this lens and may not even get $750 (this would be a very good deal for someone though). That's a $250-400 loss for me. Of course this is with full disclosure and careful description. Unless the seller works with me to make this right it's definitely going back.

Thanks for the advice.


Mike, ''what really happened'' was this....I read your posts, 2 posts in particular No5 and No7 above. I then stuck my neck out and stated what I thought i.e I said I felt that you seemed to be ''fishing for suckers''. As I said last night my thinking was this, New guy, Unknown, curious posts (IMO), states that the seller of the lens he bought agrees to a full refund, which your not terribly happy with, stating that you think he should do more; in-spite of this you then indicate that you would forego the refund and consider selling the lens on privately, sustaining as you said a possible personal loss of between $250 - $400. At this point my alarm bells started ringing, thinking that you were possibly fishing for a sucker that would offer to take the lens off your hands at a handsome discount.
You see where I'm coming from... the lens that never existed fails to arrive sort of thing.

Just for the record I never at any point used any vulgarities.

I hope that you can see how I arrived at my suspicions and consider that the suspision has an understandable basis... rightly or wrongly.

I'm just trying to clarifiy things from my end and I'm sincerely not trying to slander you Mike.

I shouldnt even be sitting here when theres 4 rolls of 120 from todays shooting shouting to be developed;-)

[Mike1234]

Kev...

You clearly stated your intentions after the fact. While I don't appreciate the accusation, I DO appreciate the fact that your intentions were/are honorable. You felt as though you were looking out for other community members.

On the other hand, a new member to your community (I say "your" because I feel like an outcast here) was unjustifiably accused. While I recognize the fact that your intentions were good toward long-term members, this helped to destroyed my reputation in this forum. I will never feel welcome here.

Given that your intentions were good I can let this go. However, other members continued to slander me without remorse. Why did they do that?

You are correct, you never used vulgar language nor did I toward you.

No, I don't see how you came to your conclusions regarding my intentions. But, again, I do recognize your intentions were good. But, again, this helped to force me out this community.

I don't want you to feel badly about this but I do want you to think twice before accusing the next fledgeling member of this forum of wrong doings. The damage is irrepairable.

[kev curry]

Point taken Mike. I'm sure that if you stick around it will all work its self out. As I said last night...rich coming from me... but I sincerely hope this whole thing doesnt drive you away.

[Mike1234]

Kev...

You're a good person. Please forgive me if I ever seemed harsh toward you. I just felt very maligned, hurt, and backed into a corner.

You're okay in my book... for whatever that's worth here...

[Mike1234]

I need to say something else here...

... "trust" is something which is "earned"...

... "distrust" is also "earned"...

... and "neither" should be given "lightly"!!