3 lens setup for 8x10: 450, 300, and ? [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

View Full Version : 3 lens setup for 8x10: 450, 300, and ?

jeroldharter

8-Jul-2009, 17:17

I will be getting into 8x10 for the first time soon. From my 4x5 kit I have a Nikkor 300M that I understand covers 8x10. I just picked up the Fujinon 450 mm lens also. So I am thinking about something on the wider end to round out the kit, probably a 240 mm lens. I don't want an antique, so Fuji, Nikon, Rodenstock, Schneider, Caltar is my focus.

I do mostly outdoor landscape and abstract nature/architecture stuff so I use a fair amount of rise and tilt. I have looked at the table posted which lists coverage but some say not to worry so much because the coverage is ample at working apertures.

So the question is which 240 mm lens would you recommend given the above?

Thanks.

Blumine

8-Jul-2009, 17:21

Okay, I will bite.

Personally I like my 240mm Schneider APO Symmar alot, but its big and bulky. If you are happy with the Fuji, look at the Fuji 240mm A F/9 its the same size as your 450C. I have both and use the Schneider close to the car and the Fuji when hiking.

Blume

MIke Sherck

8-Jul-2009, 17:40

Personally, I think that 240mm is too close to 300mm. Back when I had a 240mm Caltar IIN, the other lens in the 8x10 kit was a 360mm Red Dot Artar and they made a good combination. The outfit I'm trying to sell now matches a Fuji 420mm along with a 12" Ektar, which is also a nice combination. If I feel the need to go wide, my later 210mm Fuji *just* covers 8x10 and is fine for the very few times I've needed something that wide. Were it me, I'd go for the older Fuji 210mm with lettering on the front of the lens or something similar which covers with some movement.

Mike

eddie

8-Jul-2009, 17:48

well, nota 240 but....

165mm super angulon. plenty of movements and super sharp and nice. try it, you will love it. i use 165 and 375 mostly....i have others to play with but these see most of my 8x10 time. i have a 240 schneider that i use if i need to go light as the 165 is a bear.

jeroldharter

8-Jul-2009, 19:07

Capocheny

8-Jul-2009, 19:36

I have done some searching on this as well in the meantime. Looks like the Fujinon 240A has a lot of fans because of quality, light weight, and small size. I don't see many of those used but it looks like Badger sells them.

Hi Jerold,

I would tend to agree with Mike about the 240 being a bit close to the 300. However, it is the focal length I use most often on my 8x10 in spite of having a 305 G-Claron.

In addition to the Fujinon 240A, the 240 G-Claron or 240 Germinar are both great lenses as well. The Germinar is a rarer lens to find but it does show up every so often on the bay.

You certainly won't go astray with the Fujinon 240A. Here's Kerry Thalmann's thoughts on the lens:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm

Lastly, dealing with Badger Graphics will ensure a good buying experience as Jeff is a great person to deal with. :)

Cheers

John Kasaian

8-Jul-2009, 19:56

I get a lot of use from my 240 G Claron. The other lens I have around that focal length is a 10" WF Ektar, which I absolutely love (if I don't have to carry it far from the trunk of the car!)
The 240 G Claron though, is hard to beat!
I also agree that 300mm is pretty close to the 240mm to be a really useful stable-mate. I use a 14" (360mm) and that gives me a wee bit more spacing than a 12" :)

Drew Wiley

8-Jul-2009, 20:11

My routine combination is 450 (Fuji C), 360 (Fuji A), and 240 (G-Claron or Fuji A).
This is about an equal spacing, with quite a bit of coverage in the respective focal
lengths. Once in awhile I also pack a 600 Fuji C. A lot like John's kit noted above.

Don Hutton

8-Jul-2009, 21:01

If your heart is set on a 240mm to go with the other two, I'd recommend the Germinar - it's fabulous and has a lot more room for movements than say a Fuji 240mm. Personally, for a 3 lens kit with a 300 and a 450, I find a 210mm fits better than a 240. The king of lightweight 210mms for 8x10 must be the Kowa Graphic (or a 210 Computar) - extremely sharp, tiny and has heaps of room for movements.

Archphoto

9-Jul-2009, 03:51

I have been using a 210W for the past years, it does not give you a huge amount of shift and it is rather bulky, but it is a great lens that is more in line with 450-300-?
I sits in a Copal 3 shutter.
It is the only lens that does not fit into my standard Technika plates due to the size of the rear element: it wouldn't fit through the hole of Technika opening, so I will have to have a look for a diferent lens for new Shen Hao 4x5.

Great lens, tack sharp and easy to use on my Sinar P2 4x5/8x10.

Peter

evan clarke

9-Jul-2009, 04:48

I have done some searching on this as well in the meantime. Looks like the Fujinon 240A has a lot of fans because of quality, light weight, and small size. I don't see many of those used but it looks like Badger sells them.

Hi Jaimie,
I carry the 450 Fuji, the 300 Nikkor, the 240 Fuji and a 150 SSXL. I never use anything but the 300 and the 450!!..Evan Clarke

Gem Singer

9-Jul-2009, 05:11

Jerold,

Given the two lenses that you already have, I would choose the Fuji 240A.

Call Jim at Midwest (mpex.com). I got mine from him at a reasonable price.

Chuck Pere

9-Jul-2009, 05:21

Another good 8x10 lens is the older Fuji 250 f6.7. Coverage spec is 398mm. Only single coated. It has it's fans.

Songyun

9-Jul-2009, 10:21

Jeff Morfit

9-Jul-2009, 10:54

How about a Cooke XVa? Cooke will have a batch of them ready for sale in a couple of months.

Don Hutton

9-Jul-2009, 10:59

How about a Cooke XVa? Cooke will have a batch of them ready for sale in a couple of months.I owned a pair for a couple of years - they have some drawbacks - for the long 24inch set-up, you need at least 30 inches of bellows; there is a little CA with the single elements on color and unscrewing lens elements in and out in the field is not a lot of fun....

Maris Rusis

9-Jul-2009, 17:40

My three lens Tachihara 8x10 kit is based on the longest and shortest lenses that the bellows will accommodate plus a 300mm "normal" focal length.

The longest is a 740mm f16 achromat, middle is a Fujinon-W 300 f5.6, and the wide is a 121mm f8 Super Angulon. The big gaps between the focal lengths I make up for by "foot zooming". So far, so good.

Eric Leppanen

9-Jul-2009, 23:39

I do mostly outdoor landscape and abstract nature/architecture stuff so I use a fair amount of rise and tilt. I have looked at the table posted which lists coverage but some say not to worry so much because the coverage is ample at working apertures.Not all lens designs exhibit significantly expanded coverage when stopped down past f/22. Lens such as the G-Claron and Germinar W do. The Nikon M, Fuji A and Fuji C series lenses and most plasmats do not.

The wild card here is the "A" word (architecture), which traditionally imposes much more extensive coverage requirements than landscapes/nature. Your Nikon 300M is a very sharp lens, but its coverage of 8x10 is fairly tight, and the coverage of the Fuji 240A is even tighter (roughly one inch of movement before vignetting occurs). If you indeed use "a fair amount of rise and tilt," then you may have to revisit your 300mm lens choice as well as pick a wide angle. For example, the Nikon 300M and Fuji 240A definitely do not have enough coverage for traditional architectural applications.

If you back off the architecture requirement, then you have a lot of leeway for lens selection, and the previous posts have already listed a lot of good options. If you must have architecture, then you might initially try a 240mm G-Claron or 240mm Germinar W (the Germinar is slightly better in that it is multi-coated; the G-Claron is more commonly available); these lenses will have adequate coverage for architecture when stopped down, are small and light, and reasonably priced on the used market. If after working with your 8x10 system for awhile you subsequently determine that your Nikon 300M has insufficient coverage, then you can replace it with something like a Fuji 300A (420mm image circle), 305mm G-Claron or a much larger plasmat. Or you could just keep the 300M and use the 240 (and crop the negative) whenever extended coverage is required.

210mm 8x10 lenses with sufficient coverage for architecture are either rare (Graphic Kowa, Computar, Fuji W) or huge and expensive, so you are probably better off with a 240mm lens, at least for now.

Diane Maher

10-Jul-2009, 06:03

Based on the original post, I would recommend either the 240 G-Claron or the Germinar-W. I have both and have used both on 8x10.

Jim Fitzgerald

10-Jul-2009, 06:43

I use my Fuji 240A on my 8x10 a lot and I love this lens. You do have to be careful because you will run out of coverage real quick. 1" of movement is about right.

Jim

John Powers

10-Jul-2009, 07:55

Kerry said about the Fuji 240A, "…yet it can hit the corners of 8x10 with a little to spare." That and architecture may not fit comfortably in the same sentence. You said you didn't want any ancients and I can understand, but I would give a second vote for the 250mm Wide Field Ektar. I use it on my 7x17 with lots of room. Yesterday I shot an 8x10 of an 1840s church with a tall steeple quite close up, from base to top of steeple, with the 250wfe. It had miles of rise.

When you are ready to go the long direction, the 600mm Fuji C is very nice if you have the bellows length required.

Enjoy,
John

John Kasaian

10-Jul-2009, 15:46

You said you didn't want any ancients and I can understand, but I would give a second vote for the 250mm Wide Field Ektar. I use it on my 7x17 with lots of room. Yesterday I shot an 8x10 of an 1840s church with a tall steeple quite close up, from base to top of steeple, with the 250wfe. It had miles of rise.

Enjoy,
John

Aye, the 250 WF is a dandy piece of glass, ain't it?:D

Don7x17

10-Jul-2009, 16:00

unscrewing lens elements in and out in the field is not a lot of fun....

Tip: get some Neolube. Carefully paint it onto the lens threads with a 0000 brush. You won't hear the aluminum-on-aluminum noise any longer (and the threads won't wear either).

It does not move. Its a dry lubricant (some Molybdenum product I am told). Bonds to the aluminum somewhat. It wears slowly.

I applied it to the Nikor 600/800/1200 element threads back in 1992....haven't had to reapply it since. And its working very well. Sexton saw this and starting using it as well.
I've also applied it to the threads of filter step-up rings, and all the giant Heliopan filters I use (105, and 135mm). prevents the filters/ring from getting stuck and reduces thread wear.

I have no association with them, but you can order it from a model railroad supplier at
http://www.p-b-l.com/PBL2002/main-ws-ltm.html. See part number 1-PBL-710.

Capocheny

11-Jul-2009, 21:23

Dave Wooten

11-Jul-2009, 23:50

I have used my Rodenstock 210 S on 8 x 10. It covers but you dont have movements. I like the 210 on 8 x 10 better than the 240...on my want list is a 210 with better coverage for the 8 x 10...to answer your question...the 210 mentioned, 300 M and the Fugi 450.

the little 150 wally is fun and covers nicely...

John Powers

12-Jul-2009, 04:38

Jerold,

As a follow-up to my earlier comment... I also have the 210 WA Raptar and had it mounted in a Copal shutter. It's small and very light.

The following link might stir your interest:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wollensak-210-Wide-Field-Raptar-8x10-Coverage-UNUSED_W0QQitemZ180379773477QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item29ff78ea25&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A2|39%3A1|293%3A10|294%3A50

[Alternatively: Item number: 18037977347]

The seller is highly reputable and I purchased my version from him.

Cheers

To second this my next lens up from the 250mm wfe for my 7x17 is a 273mm Wolly in a Pi-Alphax shutter. Sharp as a tack, light weight and great coverage. The Wollys seem highly under rated.

If you must have modern it was a shame you were not interested when I had and sold my 210mm ssxl. The lens and suitcase was larger than my 8x10 Phillips.

John

Steve Barber

13-Jul-2009, 07:49

Well, if the 240mm Rodenstock APO-Sironar-S was an acceptable substitute for the 210mm Schneider Super-Angulon, life would be much simpler. Unfortunately, given the Super-Angulon's weight and bulk, it is not. The 210mm Super-Angulon is the most useful lens I have for 8x10 and, if I were to be limited to only one; for me, this would be the lens I would have in lieu of all others on an 8x10 camera.
If I were more interested in portraits, I would insist on two lenses, the other being my 480mm lens. But, for only one, for landscapes and architecture, the 210mm is it, with the 165mm Super-Angulon being a close second.

David Stephenson

15-Jul-2009, 02:36

I use a 210 Super Symmar HM which is fairly heavy but a very sharp lens that is a good spread from the 300 - I had a 240 for a while but it was a bit too close. However the 240 G Claron should cover and are fairly small and light, although only f9 so harder to see with. The 210 SS HMs come up on eBay regularly, and are sometimes reasonably priced.

Brian Ellis

15-Jul-2009, 07:29

I had a 300 Nikon M (yes, it covers 8x10 just fine) and a 450 APO Artar I think it was. Although I owned a 240 at one time, for my purposes it was too close to 300 on an 8x10 camera. My two wide angles for 8x10 eventually were a 210 G Claron and a 159mm f9.5 Wollensak. Both worked very well.

Jason Greenberg Motamedi

15-Jul-2009, 09:32

I sold my 240/9 Fujinon-A after getting an 8x10 because it didn't give me enough movements. After all, what is the point of a view camera if you can't use movements? I replaced it with a 210/9 Computar and I have never run out of image circle...

jeroldharter

16-Jul-2009, 19:39

Thanks for all of the replies. I am trying to decide if I am more confused or more determined than before! Based on the comments so far, and my limited experience in 8x10, I think that the 240mm G-Claron might be a good place to start. It is relatively inexpensive and not particularly rare to find and has better coverage than the Fujinon 240A. It is single coated (which I have never used) but I use only black and white film with a compendium so I don't think it will be a major issue.

Now I need to find one in good condition and good price.

I might add that the 210mm G Claron sounds intriguing but I think it would have the same coverage issues as the Fujinon 240A.

asd

16-Jul-2009, 19:45

Nikon M450

Sal Santamaura

17-Jul-2009, 07:23

...Based on the comments so far, and my limited experience in 8x10, I think that the 240mm G-Claron might be a good place to start. It is relatively inexpensive and not particularly rare to find and has better coverage than the Fujinon 240A. It is single coated...I think you'd be better off with Don's 240mm Germinar W:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=486490&postcount=6

Beautifully multicoated, very well corrected and lots of coverage when stopped to f/32 or smaller, just like the 240mm G-Claron. I wouldn't sell mine.

jeroldharter

17-Jul-2009, 11:04

I think you'd be better off with Don's 240mm Germinar W:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=486490&postcount=6

Beautifully multicoated, very well corrected and lots of coverage when stopped to f/32 or smaller, just like the 240mm G-Claron. I wouldn't sell mine.

Looks like a great lens but too pricey for the current budget. Someone offered to sell me a 240mm Sironar N but I think that would not have much more coverage than the Fujinon 240A.

Someone recommended the Nikkor 450M. I already have the similar Fujinon 450C.