Ulf Quick Release Solution Needed

[BILL3075]

Greetings,

I've taken delivery of 16x20 Chamonix camera. [and BTW, it's a real beauty!].
The challenge is this one: to find a quick release setup: plate and clamp system sturdy enough to handle this camera.

The tripods are either a Ries A100 or J100; and a 5-series Gitzo. Thus far, I've come up with the following possible setup: 2 RRS smaller clamps attached to either a Gitzo low profile head, together with the 6" RRS sliding bar (MPR152) screwed into the base of the Chamonix; or, just a straight attachment to the Ries.

This setup with the Gitzo is ok, but the head does wobble a bit. To be honest, I'd rather use the Ries but would not like to use it without some clamping system.

Any suggestions out there? Has anyone using ULF come up with a solution?

BTW, the total weight--camera, filmholder, lens-- is approx. 36--37 lbs.

Thanks in advance,

BILL

[Tri Tran]

Hi Bill,
Congratulation!The Bogen 3039 will do the job for you. It's light, cheap ,strong and easy to use. So far I have no problem with it, far better anything I've used . You just have to play with the head positions when you snap the camera on or take it down. The extra monopod for the front tilt under focusing bed is recomended for strong wind but I rarely use it. I beleived Hass pre drilled a few holes extra under it. You might consider to custome order a backpack. Enjoy.

Best,
TT

[boris]

i just can't praise enought this head with the exellent quick release. especially with bold and heavy camers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/31507-REG/Linhof_003669_Profi_3_Pan_Tilt_Head.html#specifications
3,4kg. german-heavy-metal
boris

[John Jarosz]

Hi Bill,
I agree that finding a QR for ULF is a challenge.

I use the manfrotto/Bogen hex plate. BUT, I've made some modifications, and I had a lucky find.

The hex plate is screwed to the bottom of the camera with 3 screws directly into the wooden camera base.

I "found" an ancient version of the the corresponding Bogen head that uses a screw lock instead of the cam. I can tighten the screw lock down on the hex plate as tight as I like and it won't be going anywhere.

Of course, I understand that you might not want to start screwing into the base of a new Chamonix. But I was leery of using a standard QR on my 8x20 as well. This solution of mine has worked quite well. I will say that the screw-lock version of the Bogen head is the only one I have ever seen, it has to be 30 years old or so.

John

[Michael Kadillak]

When you are in ULF with camera set ups over 25# you are in a special category of photographers for which the market for quick release is few and far between. I use a Bogen 3039 head with the quick release plate for my Canham 8x20 (17#) and my Calumet black C1 (15#) and it does well because it is below its 20# rating. I would not ever use this with my 34# Wisner 11x14 tech field because it would greatly exceed its design criteria and it could be painful as hell esthetically and in the pocketbook.

From an engineering perspective there is a reason that the Ries A100 tripod has a 6" square base plate on its head. You need that surface area at the base of the camera to adequately support a camera of this large size and proportional weight distribution. Compromising on any smaller support plate is taking a risk that I personally do not feel is worth the price of admission.

Yes, it is a bit of a pain in the ass to screw down the camera on the large Ries head on the A100 tripod, but it really does not take that long. Fact is that everything with these big ass cameras takes extra time and dedication and there are few shortcuts. It just is what it is. Look at this investment as insurance that your prized and expensive camera and lens are going to be given proper support and are much less likely to take an unexpected trip to meet mother earth or father rock when in service. Plus you will not be cursing the wind even when it is modestly blowing on that ground glass sail that is emulating as a ULF camera.

Just my $0.02.

[Colin Graham]

You could always fashion something like this quick release (http://www.skgrimes.com/tpod/index.htm) Dick Streff made (towards the bottom of page) and up-size/overkill as needed. Looks like it would be pretty straight forward to make.

[BILL3075]

Thanks, Guys,

For all your responses.

Yes, Michael, the direct attachment is probably the best approach. Unfortunately,
Chamonix does not put a handle on the camera--at least not on the larger sizes. And
I'd like to avoid drilling into it..... still, given the weight and bulk, I'm not comfortable with just a single screw mounted method, Ries included.

Colin: I saw that wedge plate on SKGrimes's site; will contact them to see if there's a possibility....

Tran & John: thanks, I'll also look into the 3039. Tran: are you using your 2024 with this Bogen setup? I'd assume that the stated maximum weight is greatly understated.....

Boris: as nice as the Linhof piece is, I'd look at it only as a last resort, as it is quite pricey, given there may be other options.....

The best (?!) I can come up with is this: from RRS a 6" bar (MPR182) with 2 quick release clamps with the side releases; all with 2 screws. The clamps are facing each other so as to allow ease of locking/releasing the clamps. The bar is screwed into all 3 holes on the camera's base..... Granted the whole thing will be a little wobbly on a 5 series Gitzo; much less on the Ries when just one clamp is applied. Of course, the Achilles' heel is the relatively thin RRS bar. Undoubtedly taxing its intended useage.

Will report back on further developments.

Again, thanks to all for your input.

BILL





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[wfwhitaker]

A Ries A250 head with its single screw is probably going to be more secure than two Arca-Swiss-style clamps because the contact area of the Ries is much larger. The mounting screw does not support the camera, the head supports the camera; at least until it's tilted close to 90 degrees.

[Jim Ewins]

Guys, this is LF - Large and Larger - not press cameras used in sports photography - so why a QUICK release? Is any thing about LF photography Quick? Paula Charmley showed me the benefits of a direct connection and find it works well. Anything More between the film plane & ground is something more to give problems. Enjoy

[scott_6029]

A 'second' on the larger Ries head screwed directly into the bottom of the camera...you can glue/stick some felt pads on the tripod head to protect the bottom of the camera. the larger Ries head provides more surface for attaching the camera securely.

[Michael Kadillak]

A 'second' on the larger Ries head screwed directly into the bottom of the camera...you can glue/stick some felt pads on the tripod head to protect the bottom of the camera. the larger Ries head provides more surface for attaching the camera securely.

That is what I did with my Ries head. Got some grey felt and used double stick tape and it does a great job of protecting the bottom of the camera. Being able to also loosen the head from under the tripod and pan the camera as well as use the side tilt is similarly well designed. There is a reason that these fittings are large and brass. They hold like the dickens.

Earlier a comment was made that the camera reference in the original post did not have a handle. This strikes me as completely unacceptable for a camera that weights this much and is so large in size. How are you supposed to carry it with one hand? What you could possibly gain by using a quick release plate you lose by having such a poor way of managing the camera to and from the vehicle and where you are making the image.

My Deardorff V11 has a metal handle on it that looks like it came off of a pickup truck.

I absolutely adore the quick release plate and head that I can use with my less heavy cameras. Unfortunately, I do not have the time or the inclination to modify an existing set up of fabricate my own. I can screw my Wisner to my Ries head in no time at all and can focus on making the image and not worrying about it taking a header. At the end of the day each of us make a choice as to how we want to manage the logistics of being in the field and using these cameras.

[William McEwen]

For what it's worth, I am also just fine without a quick release.

I had a big bad heavy duty Bogen quick release head. When my 17-lb Wisner TF quick released while I was photographing and fell to the ground (NOT user error!), I swore off quick releases forever.

In my opinion, disaster is always lurking!

It only takes a moment to screw the camera on.

Even without a handle on your camera, I think you can find a screw mounting ritual that works.

[wfwhitaker]

For your consideration, here's an alternative form of "quick release" that I employed when I restored a Folmer & Schwing 12x20 camera last year. For this camera I wanted to use an early version of the Ries A100 tripod with a Photoplane head. In my estimation, the worst part of mounting a big camera on a tripod is getting the little screw lined up with the little hole, all the while trying to neither drop the camera nor scratch up the bed plate. My solution was to make a "tray" out of mahogany that mounted on the tripod head. Side rails on the tray formed a channel that was sized to the bed of the camera such that when the camera was set into it, it was automatically centered left-to-right. Smaller rails on the bottom aligned the tray with the tripod head. The tray was also sized so that when the rear edge of the camera was brought flush with the rear edge of the tray, the tripod mounting hole was directly above the camera mounting screw. The screw remained below the surface of the tray until it was inserted into the camera, so that there was no scratching. There was a threaded disk underneath the tray so that the screw was captive and would not drop out.

Mounting the camera was as simple as setting the camera in the tray, lining up the back edges and tightening the screw. There was no hunting around for the screw hole. The rails automatically aligned the axis of the camera with the tripod head and did not allow it to twist. Another hole in the tray gave me the option of repositioning the camera for balance if I needed, although I never found it necessary with that particular camera. The wood was finished with tung oil and wax so that the camera would move along the tray without binding. I'd considered felt, but quickly decided I didn't want that for a camera which would be used outside. This system worked very well and for a camera this size, I'd do it again. It may not be as "quick" as a quick-release. But it does allow for a fairly fast setup of a camera that size and provides security as well. The tray effectively enhances the size of the tripod head and maximizes support for the camera.

The photo below shows the arrangement. The tray is visible between the tripod head and the bed of the camera.

http://wfwhitaker.com/tech/FS1220_3.jpg

[Steve Hamley]

I can vouch for Will's solution as I now own that camera. I'll try to post a better picture of the "tray" later on. Everything digital I have is dying, unlike the 100-year old Eastmans and Folmers I have, which all still work perfectly fine.

A second option for 35 pounds of camera would be a Linhof adapter plate, the 5" circular one with the collar on it that fits into the 90mm tripod head. You can just sit the camera onto the tripod head and tighten one lever and you're done. The tripod/head was the one intended for the large Linhof studio cameras, and Linhof still makes at least the tripod.

The downside is that like the Ries Photoplane, there's no side-to-side tilt since that was supplied by the Linhof rail clamp in the system for which the tripod head was designed. It's also considerably heavier than a Ries A-100 and head, but you can hang a 35 pound camera any way you want without fear.

Cheers, Steve

[Jim Galli]

A quick release plate secure enough for your investment will just add 2 more pounds to the kit. It seems silly to me when the Ries spring loaded screw is so elegant in design and use. To each his own I suppose. Auto-focus would be nice too.

[RichardRitter]

The safest way to go is no quick release and no pan head. A camera this heavy will make a mess when it hits the ground.:eek:

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I have my Walnut 11x14 which with lens and holder is about 20 lbs screwed into my Gitzo 1570M head. The head has 2, 3/8" screws that go into the camera bed. I have some pencil marks on the bed of the camera that line up with the head screws. The head plate is large enough to give me a stable support so I can get the screws secured. Doing it a couple of times was all I needed. When you get to ULF it is time to say goodbye to the quick release plates. It only takes me about a minute to secure my camera and I know it is attached without any chance of coming off.

Jim

[Merg Ross]

I have my Walnut 11x14 which with lens and holder is about 20 lbs screwed into my Gitzo 1570M head. The head has 2, 3/8" screws that go into the camera bed. I have some pencil marks on the bed of the camera that line up with the head screws. The head plate is large enough to give me a stable support so I can get the screws secured. Doing it a couple of times was all I needed. When you get to ULF it is time to say goodbye to the quick release plates. It only takes me about a minute to secure my camera and I know it is attached without any chance of coming off.

Jim

I agree. I have never seen any advantage for quick release with a large format system. Much safer, and almost as fast, to connect directly to the bed or block.

I spent a lot of time photographing with Brett Weston when he was using the 8x10. He had a clamshell Baco head and Ries tripod. Imagine that, not a three-way head. He could set up and level in less than a minute. The lesson learned; keep it simple, know your equipment, and photograph often.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I agree. I have never seen any advantage for quick release with a large format system. Much safer, and almost as fast, to connect directly to the bed or block.

I spent a lot of time photographing with Brett Weston when he was using the 8x10. He had a clamshell Baco head and Ries tripod. Imagine that, not a three-way head. He could set up and level in less than a minute. The lesson learned; keep it simple, know your equipment, and photograph often.

Merg, nice to know that about the only thing I have in common with Brett Weston is that we could set up our cameras in about the same time!

Jim