Do you fear theft/violence when under your darkcloth?

[Heroique]

When photographing in some areas of Liverpool, it's essential to have an extremely heightened sense of awareness, otherwise you could end up with a lot less gear than you had when you put your head under the focusing cloth.


Sharper -- because in NYC I am always afraid that as soon as I stick my head under the darkcloth, someone is going to come at me with a baseball bat.

The remarks above are bubbling up in the “photo-psychology” thread – they surprise me, and I thought they might deserve a little exploration:

Do you fear theft (or violence) when covered by your darkcloth?

Are such fears reasonable, or do they emerge simply because you're “in the dark”?

If your fears ARE warranted, how do you manage them?

I usually don’t shoot in the city, so thievery may apply less to my experience – but I’d like to hear from you. (In the woods, I’m usually more concerned with a squirrel scampering off with my granola than a thief absconding with my Schneider!)

[Gem Singer]

Depends on where you are photographing and how much time you are spending under the dark cloth.

If I have doubts about the safety of the area, I take someone along on the shoot.

Another solution is to use a focusing hood instead of a dark cloth.

[David Swinnard]

Not yet, but the seed's been planted I might.

Seriously though, on a recent shoot (daylight) in an urban environment I have to admit to wondering if I might have to deal with folks who might resent my presence. All turned out well and I did have pleasant conversations with a couple of the local business owners wondering why I would be taking pictures in such an area. (the now depressed main street in a small town where I spent my youth that I always felt I should photograph. Was there for totally unrelated reason, and actually had the Technika in the car, and chanced upon the perfect light for the occasion - how could I not shoot?)

I admit to worrying more about bears than people usually.

Dave

[D. Bryant]

The remarks above are bubbling up in the “photo-psychology” thread – they surprise me, and I thought they might deserve a little exploration:

Do you fear theft (or violence) when covered by your darkcloth?

Are such fears reasonable, or do they emerge simply because you're “in the dark”?

If your fears ARE warranted, how do you manage them?

I usually don’t shoot in the city, so thievery may apply less to my experience – but I’d like to hear from you. (In the woods, I’m usually more concerned with a squirrel scampering off with my granola than a thief absconding with my Schneider!)

Not when my two friends, Smith & Weston are hanging around.

Don Bryant

[PenGun]

Not when my two friends, Smith & Weston are hanging around.

Don Bryant

Interesting. Suppose they are not along ... what then?

[Turner Reich]

If you are standing on a country road, the siding next to the road, and a couple of dueling banjo types come running up yelling "give me that god damm camera shit" and they have shot guns, what do you do? What do you do?

You would not believe how fast you can react, shoving the equipment in the truck, racing off with the door still open and not looking in the rear view mirror for miles.

A gun could have immediately stopped the bastards in there tracks, or not. The only way would have been to have a pump action shot gun right there next to the tripod in plain sight. Better yet would be to put some claymore mines out there on the parameter. :D I know it's over kill but you might be the one to get killed in this world of ours.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m18-claymore.htm


...I know what you're thinking, did he fire six shots or only five...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2y8HDU7-U

[Gem Singer]

Turner,

Under the conditions you describe, I would not hesitate for a moment to give those guys my "camera shit".

However, I would have made sure that my high end camera equipment was in a safe place back home.

They're welcome to my shitty stuff. I wouldn't take my best equipment to that type of location.

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

Living in Brazil this may be the main reason you don't see people with cameras, except foreign tourists.
You need to be brave and lucky when photographing out in the streets.
Since I use my MF and LF gear in the countryside, I have no fear.

I think there are not many places in the world you can see people out, armed with Fal 15, and you are not in the battle camp nor they are cops.

It's very sad....

(It would be a paradise, but corruption abroad....)

[Eric Rose]

Wow I guess I'm lucky. Around here I don't worry at all.

[The Dread Pirate Robins]

I don't go for paranoia much. At 6'3" and north of 250 lbs I don't get much trouble from strangers.

Usually, if anything, I get approached by people with questions.

[mandoman7]

There was some Calif countryside that I was photographing at nightfall by myself, and I would see occasional mountain lion tracks in muddy areas on trails. I could never shake the feeling of being watched and being considered for dinner, particularly when it got very dark. It got to me after a while, not helped by all the warnings about not going out by yourself at the trail entrance.

[resummerfield]

Wow I guess I'm lucky. Around here I don't worry at all.
That's how I feel, too. Although I do keep alert during hiking for 4-legged critters.

[Frank Bagbey]

In almost all the states except that Bastard Illinois, but expecially in the Southeast and Midwest and parts West, all the photographers I know are packing guns. Once, back in some real boonies and down in a creek bed, some unsavory characters cruised by my parked vehicle 3 times, looking at me down in the creek bed. I casually let my concealed weapon become un-concealed. Fortunately, I was finished shooting and departed the spot. No need taking a chance.
Those living where they cannot get a concealed carry permit or otherwise protect themselves need to move. You are just asking for it unless you keep a Navy Seal around to body guard you. Think about it, you might have 10,000 dollars or more in gear you could lose, not to mention your life. At least go out shooting if that is what it takes...take them with you! In the meantime, get a concealed carry permit.

[Drew Wiley]

I'm a lot more worried about Dennis the Menace types throwing a pebble or using a
slingshot at my lens or groundglass. That's why I never photograph from busy Natl Park turnouts. I speak fluent redneck when necessary, but as a matter of policy do
my best to keep a serious distance from meth freaks. Never worry about mtn lions;
they're one of the least dangerous large carnivores in the world. Used to get them to
deliberately stalk me out of curiosity by stuffing a flag in my back pocket; then I'd
duck behind a tree to watch them. In fact, quite a few wild critters have walked right up to me to figure out what kind of beast goes around with three wooden legs
and two denim ones, and wears a big black thing over its head. The only time this
got a little dicey is when I heard numerous grunts, lifted the darkcloth, and found
myself surrounded by about thirty wild pigs, including four boars. I grasped the neck
of my tripod with one hand, and latched onto a tree limb with the other. But before I
climbed the tree, I tried whooping and hollering. The pigs got all confused, started
running around me in a big circle, then ran off. I got a fabulous chrome of the tree
itself, plus this fun story.

[The Dread Pirate Robins]

I've got the axe handle in the car. If it ever gets so bad that I feel like I have to carry a handgun I will just emigrate.

[falth j]

Emigrate?


Washington d.c.? After all, 535 crooks live there and feel completely safe.

Mexico?

[Chris Dunham]

I shoot in the streets of Perth (Western Australia) and assault is a real problem when shooting at night, usually it's just a thrown bottle by groups of stupid bored kids or at least that's all it's been so far apart from one stolen camera. Is use a viewer rather than a darkcloth. I was surprised to see the comments re firearms. If your scared enough to arm yourself you have to be prepared to either take anothers life or have it used on you, neither option has much going for it. Most cases you can walk away and a camera is just a hunk of metal after all.

Chris.

[Steaphany]

It's been said many times to me "A polite society is an armed society".

The reasons are very clear, take a look where ever self protection, i.e. owning or carrying a firearm or comparable weapon, has been prohibited by law. People who follow the law are left with no available means to protect themselves. Those who disregard the law, get firearms and commit crimes since they have no worries of being challenged.

The places around the world with the worst crime is where there are the strictest firearm prohibitions.

People around the world may see the US as gun crazy, but it nothing like those ancient western movie shoot'em ups. Concealed carry means no one knows who has a firearm or not. Open carry means everyone can see who has a weapon. Apart from public or private shooting ranges, they are rarely handled let alone used. Regardless, criminals want life easy and with out risk, which is how firearm possession lowers crime.

My weapon is a small Leinad derringer, loaded with 410 birdshot shotgun rounds. Over any distance, It'll just leave someone really hurting. Other than practice, I've never used it.

[John Kasaian]

If there is a concern for safety, I'll take along a friend or two. Sometimes this is hard to do (like shooting in a foggy industrial location at 10:00 PM---not too many friends are willing to go out on nights like that even though the saloons don't close around here until 2:00AM)

Out in the countryside, there is little to fear and common sense is the best weapon.

If anything, pot plantation owners, cougars, stray pit bulls and rattlers would be the most formidable of threats I'd expect to come up against and these are fortunately rare in places where I shoot.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Those quotes represent an advanced state of paranoia. If those people live in such fear, how can they even use a toilet in a public place, a taxi, a bus or an airplane? I feel sorry for them.

[Gem Singer]

Stephany,

Just be careful not to accidentally shoot yourself in the foot with that Derringer..

[Steaphany]

It's not paranoia to plan for the best and prepare for the worst - Just ask any Boy Scout or insurance agent.

Here in rural Texas, I do run the risk of a confrontation with feral hogs, feral dogs and coy-dogs, rattle snakes, and the occasional cougar. The closest rattle snake incident happened while mowing the front yard, but things didn't go well for the snake when it dove for cover under a running mower.
-=-=-
To Gem Singer, I take all the necessary precautions

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

It's been said many times to me "A polite society is an armed society".

What about Japan? May be the most polite society, and guns are totally prohibited.

[Frank Petronio]

I simply fart on occasion and the noxious gas cloud does the rest.

[goamules]

The main thing we have to fear is fear itself. If you are afraid being either out in the boonies, or in an urban environment, it's unfortunate, because a lot of the world is one or the other. Just avoid the worst areas or you might want to find another hobbie.

I live in the border region of Arizona. Have encountered human and possibly drug smugglers many times. Sometimes I've had a revolver on my hip, sometimes not. Mostly, you just nod and keep apart. But if anyone ever comes up to you, or returns several times, red flags better go up. Watch your back and leave the area as quickly as possible. Having a weapon or looking tough will stop some problems, but not those from the worst kind. If you can leave, you are safer. Now if you have a camp set up, that's not a fair option, but I've had to do it once. I live in an area where anonymous, drive by shootings happen all the time. Brandishing a gun doesn't matter to those types....

Do I worry about animals in the boonies? Not much at all. We've seen cats up to mountain lions, jaguars have entered southern AZ, bears of course. When I can, I like to have a sidearm, but I'm not too worried without.

[iamjanco]

I simply fart on occasion and the noxious gas cloud does the rest.

Is that anything like tweeting?

[Gem Singer]

To quote Stephany,

"I take all the necessary precautions".

Famous last words of dozens of people who suffer from accidental gunshot wounds in this country every day.

Many of my fellow Texan's believe that they are expert gun handlers, and it's their "God Given Right" to own a gun. The National Rifle Association has really done a job on their heads.

It's a major challenge for me to properly aim a camera. Aiming a gun? That's an entirely different kind of skill.

[Vick Vickery]

A lot of folks bemoan those who choose to arm themselves when out taking photos...I don't arm myself for a photo session...I arm myself when I put on my pants in the morning. I've held a concealed weapons license for some time (good, thru reciprical agreements in 40 states) and carry a gun all the time. In 62 years I've only needed it twice, but I needed it badly both of those times.

[The Dread Pirate Robins]

Honestly, the most dangerous thing for most shoots is driving on public highways to and from the shoot. Look at the numbers of traffic fatalities vs. victims of gun violence, cougars, bears, meth addicts, rattlesnakes, etc. in any given year and traffic fatalities will come way out on top.

[Richard K.]

... In 62 years I've only needed it twice, but I needed it badly both of those times.

Could you briefly share the scenarios? Thanks!

[Drew Wiley]

The most valuable piece of equipment is common sense. You've got to be aware of
your surroundings, whether in the wilderness, suburbia, or the inner city. But in the
city the punks are a lot more interested in stealing your gun than your camera or
even your wallet. All this Texas sixgun rhetoric might sound good in a Senate debate, but it's a standing joke on the street. Flashing a sidearm might scare of some knothead or a home intruder, but if you happen to encounter a serious gang
member or a wigged out adolescent wanting to prove himself to his equally crazy peers, it's like throwing a rock at a hornet's nest. Some of these guys are routinely
equipped to hold off a police swat squad for hours on end; so unless you're prepared for automatic weapons action, your sidearm doesn't mean much except as a temptation to bump you off. I'm not anti-gun. I've owned and shot plenty of them myself. I'm just suggesting that one shoe doesn't fit every circumstance. When I do photograph at night downtown, I like another person along to keep an eye out while I'm under the darkcloth!

[windpointphoto]

I simply fart on occasion and the noxious gas cloud does the rest.

THAT'S what's been causing my "Schneideritis" all these years!

[Frank Petronio]

That's a good point, Drew. If you go around with a $1500 pistol as some of you are likely to do, that pistol is valuable enough for them to kill you preemptively -- without warning -- just to get that gun.

Better to shoot first!

[Turner Reich]

So the bottom line is don't go out alone, sometimes, and don't carry a firearm, all the time, don't take out any expensive equipment, just the junk, and be on the lookout for those out to rip you off or kill you. Maybe if you just talk to them they will be your friend, it worked for Jimmy Carter God bless him.

I guess man has always had to protect his goodies from the baddies, in the old west and the prehistory, a mans bone is his to protect. Hasn't it always been that when someone gets something someone else wants it at any cost?

[Ed Richards]

I think it is wishful thinking to assume that anyone but us thinks LF gear is worth stealing. My lenses were stolen because the thief just grabbed the packs from my car. I am sure when he found the lenses they went in a dumpster. High end digital gear is probalby a different issue. That gun is certainly a different issue.

[Brian Ellis]

I'm amazed that some people carry guns while photographing. I have absolutely no intention of getting in a gun battle with anyone over camera gear, especially since it's all insured anyhow. But even if I didn't have insurance, I'm not about to risk my life for camera gear.

To answer the question, when I lived in Tampa there were a few places where I used to worry, not so much about violence as that someone would grab my camera bag while I was under the dark cloth. For those who know Tampa, the main areas of conern were Ybor City and Hillsborough State Park or the Port if I was alone late in the day with few other people around. Other than those places, I didn't worry much in Tampa. I worry even less now that I live in Bend, Oregon. I've never given theft or worse a second thought here or anywhere else in Oregon. I might have some concern in some parts of Portland but I've never photographed there.

[Chris Dunham]

It's been said many times to me "A polite society is an armed society".

The reasons are very clear, take a look where ever self protection, i.e. owning or carrying a firearm or comparable weapon, has been prohibited by law. People who follow the law are left with no available means to protect themselves. Those who disregard the law, get firearms and commit crimes since they have no worries of being challenged.

The places around the world with the worst crime is where there are the strictest firearm prohibitions.

People around the world may see the US as gun crazy, but it nothing like those ancient western movie shoot'em ups. Concealed carry means no one knows who has a firearm or not. Open carry means everyone can see who has a weapon. Apart from public or private shooting ranges, they are rarely handled let alone used. Regardless, criminals want life easy and with out risk, which is how firearm possession lowers crime.

My weapon is a small Leinad derringer, loaded with 410 birdshot shotgun rounds. Over any distance, It'll just leave someone really hurting. Other than practice, I've never used it.

Gun deaths in the USA for the year 2001= 29,573
Gun deaths in the UK (an unarmed impolite society) for the year 2001 = 193

Chris.

[Turner Reich]

OK then ltl protection?

[Blacky Dalton]

This is really simple. I will walk a wide circle to avoid any conflict. I will go to near any length to avoid violence. But, corner me, threaten my loved ones (wife, children, grandchildren) and I will respond with all of the deadly force necessary, without regard as to my own safety, to protect them. When it comes to my property, defending my right to own it depends on the situation. Would I roll over and give up my cameras? Most likely not!

I was raised to be a man and a real man protects his loved ones and his property. A spineless wimp cries for some else to do his dirty work. As I said, I will do anything to avoid hostile confrontation. But if you push it, you may just find I am prepared to fight. This is the whole point of firearm conceal and carry. No one know exactly who is armed and to what extent.

What ever you choose it up to you. I respect your decision. I expect the same from you.

[Shen45]

Now let me see if this is the correct way to interpret this thread. I need a hand gun but an automatic weapon is much better. I need to fart - often and loud. I need to be afwaid -- very afwaid, just in case.

I think the stats Chris posted are very interesting.

Scenario [1] -- I'm under my darkcloth and a Western King brown or a fierce snake decides to join me do I fart -- grab for the Glock ---- or go for the automatic.

Scenario [2] -- I'm on the mudflats of the Daly under my darkcloth and hear a "sound" do I reach for the auto, do I run or do I hope the croc isn't hungry.

Scenario [3] -- I'm under my darkcloth and a Sydney funnel web takes a leap onto my neck to get a better view of my composition on the ground glass -- I think I may just f--t.

Scenario [4] -- I sit in my bedroom -- under my dark cloth of course with a loaded Glock and an auto ready to go -----

-- and the first person that walks through the door ------------

[Turner Reich]

Scenario [3] -- I'm under my darkcloth and a Sydney funnel web takes a leap onto my neck to get a better view of my composition on the ground glass -- I think I may just f--t

You two better enjoy the view for one of you it's the last view you will ever see. :eek:

[Chris Dunham]

It's getting a bit nuts around here (Perth). Got up this morning to go to work in the rusty old 97 Ford Falcon only to find some twit had thrown a bottle through the rear window. A new rear window fitted costs $580 which is about half the value of this old car so it's off to the crusher. Shame as it was good for carting the Linhof monorail around town. I'm off to look at a VW van tomorrow which could be good for LF work with a roof rack platform to get me up and away from the violent types :)

Chris.

[Shen45]

You two better enjoy the view for one of you it's the last view you will ever see. :eek:

It is a toss up between the Funnel web and the fierce snake, the croc is plain nasty.

Sorry to hear about the window Chris. VeeDub should be excellent though -- and good for fishing as well.

[Paul Ewins]

I would be looking for a japanese van instead. A lot cheaper to buy and run and they don't self-immolate the way kombis do.

[Bruce Barlow]

My only near-experience with stuff like this was when Zeke the Doberman decided to sniff my privates while I was bending over under the darkcloth at Fergit's farm.

To make friends or sing soprano? That seemed the choice.

Happily for my born-later son, Zeke and I made friends. He liked to press up against my leg while I skritched his brisket. Good dog. Friend Tim Frazier got a crazy picture of Zeke later. I have a print.

[bvstaples]

I simply fart on occasion and the noxious gas cloud does the rest.

I use this defense even when I don't need defending...keeps away almost all the undesireables!

[uniB]

Luckily you don't get too many bad types as 4am in the British countryside but I always have a look round before I go under the cloth. If I'm around when there might be people about I tend to make sure my bag is partially closed so nothing's on show. I think if anyone really did try anything on my Feisol tripod equiped with Gitzo large spikes would provide to be a pretty decent weapon in the hand of a furious photographer!

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

Luckily you don't get too many bad types as 4am in the British countryside but I always have a look round before I go under the cloth. If I'm around when there might be people about I tend to make sure my bag is partially closed so nothing's on show. I think if anyone really did try anything on my Feisol tripod equiped with Gitzo large spikes would provide to be a pretty decent weapon in the hand of a furious photographer!

Rigth on, uniB.
I've alread did it, with my big Manfrotto 3032, but used it against a real furious and insane pitbull, that escaped from its "jail" in a farm.

[Dave Aharonian]

A few years back I was shooting a viaduct at 2am on a foggy winer night in Vancouver BC. I came out from under the darkcloth to see 2 "street people" approaching me. One of them barked at me "watcha doin?" so I pointed at the foggy bridge. He was intrigued so I let him look at the groundglass. He said "F---in' cool!" and they walked away. If anything happened I guess I would have eaten some cabbage and farted on them.

[Eric Rose]

I would be looking for a japanese van instead. A lot cheaper to buy and run and they don't self-immolate the way kombis do.

Hey my Combi is wincing! Just finished a 3200 mile trip from Calgary to northern California via the Oregon coast with my 1970 VW Combi. Fun to drive and great to camp in. I use it a lot for LF work. If the weather sucks and I can get the shot from the van I just slide the side door open and shoot away.

[Steve M Hostetter]

This reminds me of back in my drinking days when I wrestled that bear... Why they never gave the poor thing a drink of water in the 10th round I'll never know.. May he rest in peace :D

[Athiril]

It's been said many times to me "A polite society is an armed society".

The reasons are very clear, take a look where ever self protection, i.e. owning or carrying a firearm or comparable weapon, has been prohibited by law. People who follow the law are left with no available means to protect themselves. Those who disregard the law, get firearms and commit crimes since they have no worries of being challenged.

The places around the world with the worst crime is where there are the strictest firearm prohibitions.

People around the world may see the US as gun crazy, but it nothing like those ancient western movie shoot'em ups. Concealed carry means no one knows who has a firearm or not. Open carry means everyone can see who has a weapon. Apart from public or private shooting ranges, they are rarely handled let alone used. Regardless, criminals want life easy and with out risk, which is how firearm possession lowers crime.

My weapon is a small Leinad derringer, loaded with 410 birdshot shotgun rounds. Over any distance, It'll just leave someone really hurting. Other than practice, I've never used it.

So what do you call Sweden with the lowest serious crime rate?

[iamjanco]

So what do you call Sweden with the lowest serious crime rate?

A flock of sheep? No, that's not it. Why the Sound of Musiek come to mind? No, that was Austria. Hmmm... gotta think about this one.