View Full Version : Got strange artifacts testing Fujinon NW 125mm f/5.6
I've been out in the mountains this weekend shooting LF with my Chamonix 45N-1 and newly acquired Fujinon NW 125mm f/5.6. It's the version that takes 52mm filters, has EBC coating and chrome speed setting ring. I have developed 5 sheets of film so far and two of them have an unpleasant artifact at the top of the frame which looks like a black ghost.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4y3DOVqW40k/SksCjiXT81I/AAAAAAAAAyw/WFUuL4tPsX4/s400/img820.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Yz0sDwNa2LY-IwDep8IU2w?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4y3DOVqW40k/SksCjlgznZI/AAAAAAAAAy0/ZeqrVb3Th8Y/s400/img826.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aQFTr26Z8FuwBhhPa1uhXQ?feat=embedwebsite")
The lens has quite some white specks inside that appear around the edges of the front element, but they seem to be on the black paint inside and not really on the glass. I was not bothered with them until now. Those artifacts arise my suspicion and now I'm wondering if they could be coming from this or some other lens fault.
I didn't use the filters or hood of any kind, totally nothing that could obstruct field of view. Film was EFKE 25 and I've used the film from the same box in the past with good results. I did stand development in HP Combi-Plan using Rodinal 1+100. I don't think the atrifacts come from the development because other sheets from the batch came out OK; all of them were inserted properly and there was enough liquid in the tank to cover them. I'm not an experienced LF shooter but I've never had any issues with my Rodenstock APO-Sironar-N 210mm. Do you think I should return this lens to the seller?
ruckusman
1-Jul-2009, 02:26
random guess...sticking shutter blade as there's a white section next to the black section
random guess...sticking shutter blade as there's a white section next to the black section
Thank you for your comment. That seems very likely. However, I don't have an access to a repairshop.
Steve Hamley
1-Jul-2009, 06:41
It's not the white specks, a.k.a. "Schneideritis". There's some vignetting going on somewhere.
If you can try another lens that would help determine whether it's the camera or lens, a;though from the shape and size, I'd tend to agree with ruckusman.
Put the shutter on 1 second and look through the lens and see if there's something visible.
If it is the shutter and you can't repair it, your only options are to replace the shutter or sell the lens and get another.
Cheers, Steve
Gem Singer
1-Jul-2009, 07:04
The white specks (in this case, Fujiitis) are not the cause of the problem you are experiencing. The shutter blades appear to be sticking. Could be caused by dried up lube. Try exercising the shutter on all speeds.
If that doesn't solve the problem, you can attempt to repair it yourself.
Un-screw and remove both the front an rear lens elements. You will now be dealing only with the shutter.
Squirt quality lighter fluid (like Ronsonol, or Zippo)into the various openings on the side of the shutter, Operate the shutter on each shutter speed, Shake out the excess fluid and allow the shutter to dry out completely. Check to make sure that the shutter blades are no longer sticking. Re-install the lens elements and your problem should be solved.
If the shutter blades are broken, return to seller.
Bob Salomon
1-Jul-2009, 08:04
Before you do anything make sure it is that lens by rotating it 180° on the board and seeing if the bad part moves. If it does the problem can only be the lens. If it does not move there is no problem with the lens.
Thanks eveybody for the hints.
Bob, that's fair enough. However the problem is that it's not consistent and I will have to waste quite some film to check that. It could be that the problem appears only at certain shutter speeds but I don't remember what speeds I used for those shots. I used f/32 all the time and exposure times 2s-1/8s depending on the lighting conditions. I will try to figure out something in the evening by setting 1s or 1/2s and looking through the lens
Gem Singer
1-Jul-2009, 08:46
Marduk,
Remove the front and rear lens elements and set them aside.
That way, you will only be dealing with the shutter.
While looking through the shutter opening, either from the front or the back, you should be able to see a sticky shutter blade at the 1/2 or 1 sec. speed setting.
With the lenses in place, the problem may not as be as obvious.
Bjorn Nilsson
2-Jul-2009, 02:57
Also, don't rule out that it could be some kind of accident with the Combiplan. Maybe a glimse of light entered through the filling hole at the top (even though it shouldn't). Also the efke film is quite sensitive and it could be something with the top holding clip of the Combi. Something like this is possible if some light got into the tank before pouring in the developer. (It couldn't get that effect at the end of development though, as by then there is really no light sensitivity left in the film and the developer is exhausted.)
For most of these kind of "happenings" :) the error is somewhere behind the groundglass :), which is one of the reasons for making this forum so great. We've all done these mistakes.
//Björn
Looks very much like development imperfections. No lens problem. Greetings, Jan
Bjorn, oldeur: it doesn't look to me like some light entered at the top for this is a dark spot. Besides, the construction of the slot holding film in Combi-Plan is pretty straightforward and there's nothing that could produce such quirks at the side of the sheet. I tend to agree this is caused by the sticky shutter blade.
Archphoto
2-Jul-2009, 07:10
The trouble I have with reasoning is that in case of a sticking shutter-blade and just one showing op in the picture would mean a broken shutter-blade.
When looking at the picture I see a stream going of the mountauin in the "dubble" exposed part. This could be caused by a clear drop of something acting as an extra lens.
I guess I you will have to exame the negative with a magnifier glas and see if I am right.
In that case the lens would have to be cleaned.
My 2 cents,
Peter
Bjorn Nilsson
2-Jul-2009, 08:58
Well, as you're shooting at f/32 this means that the shutter blade have to be totally stuck in order to show in the picture and still I'm not at all sure that it would show at all. I've also seen some pictures where some lens components were heavily damaged (read "smashed!!!") and all that happened was a bit of softness and flare, while the undamaged parts of your pictures seem very sharp and contrasty.
But without the lens at hand, it's very hard to guess what's wrong. As you shoot at long times, you can unmount the front/back of the lens and test the shutter over and over again until you've found an error or find that you can trust the shutter. You can of course test the lens at f/5.6. But also make sure that there isn't a defect (bended blade or such) in some of the aperture or shutter-blades so that they occaionally catch in each other.
In the other end, there's the matter of Efke film as such. Their QC isn't famous for being the best in the world. While their films have a lot of personality, we all have to live with the fact that the film from time to time can be faulty. Many of us have had only success, but there are quite a few reports on various issues with Efke film (under various names...). Don't get me wrong here, I use Efke/Adox film myself and love it when it's good. Nor have I had any mishaps with the film which I couldn't trace to the "shit behind the steering wheel" syndrom.
//Björn
James E Galvin
2-Jul-2009, 09:26
A stuck shutter blade is completely out of focus, not local like this. If the shutter hangs partly open, you get a light mark, not dark. This is something obstructing light, something inside the camera possibly, or maybe the cable release in front of the lens. I've seen something similar if the dark cloth is hanging partly over the lens.
J. Patric Dahlen
4-Jul-2009, 10:45
I agree with James E Galvin. It doesn't look like a lens problem.
Well, as far as one can tell from seeing those pictures it must be uneven development. The areas that are darker (in the print) did not get in touch with the developer in the appropriate way. For example, 2 sheets being placed too close together by accident. And the shape of the "imperfections" really look like that.
Well, as you're shooting at f/32 this means that the shutter blade have to be totally stuck in order to show in the picture and still I'm not at all sure that it would show at all. I've also seen some pictures where some lens components were heavily damaged (read "smashed!!!") and all that happened was a bit of softness and flare, while the undamaged parts of your pictures seem very sharp and contrasty.
But without the lens at hand, it's very hard to guess what's wrong. As you shoot at long times, you can unmount the front/back of the lens and test the shutter over and over again until you've found an error or find that you can trust the shutter. You can of course test the lens at f/5.6. But also make sure that there isn't a defect (bended blade or such) in some of the aperture or shutter-blades so that they occaionally catch in each other.
Thanks for the detailed response. I have been trying to burst my way through a backlog of work recently and didn't try to unmount the lens. I decided to return it to the seller while I'm still eligible for refund. There's another reason that motivated me to do so: I've found Fujinon rendition in color to be vastly different from my other lens - Rodenstock. I much prefer more gentle character of the Rodenstock. So I think I'll stick to German glass for now. I bought the 120mm Super Symmar HM from Peter in the classifieds as a replacement for Fujinon and it should arrive in a few days.
In the other end, there's the matter of Efke film as such. Their QC isn't famous for being the best in the world. While their films have a lot of personality, we all have to live with the fact that the film from time to time can be faulty. Many of us have had only success, but there are quite a few reports on various issues with Efke film (under various names...). Don't get me wrong here, I use Efke/Adox film myself and love it when it's good. Nor have I had any mishaps with the film which I couldn't trace to the "shit behind the steering wheel" syndrom.
//Björn
Good point. It occurred to me too.
Well, as far as one can tell from seeing those pictures it must be uneven development. The areas that are darker (in the print) did not get in touch with the developer in the appropriate way. For example, 2 sheets being placed too close together by accident. And the shape of the "imperfections" really look like that.
I'd rather rule out this possibility. I put sheets facing the side of the tank. When I opened the lid I saw the sheets were positioned OK. They came from the two different batches. Thanks anyway!
I'd call myself an experienced LF user, darkroom included, and with this being my last attempt I want to insist on what I said before. Already the shape of the dark zone tells me that something went wrong in the lab. I had similar things happening- now I use a tray for development and the yankee tank for rinse only. Good luck!
cowtown_eric
17-Jul-2009, 20:14
looks all the world like a light leak to me.....
Eric in Calgary
Kirk Gittings
17-Jul-2009, 20:26
Eric, a light leak would leave an area of increased density in the negative and a corresponding light streak in the print.
I'd put my money on a processing/development issue - I used to get VERY similar results when using a Paterson Orbital processor before I increased amount of chemistry? See my blog for details.
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