No.2 Kodak Supermatic and Flash? [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Athiril

26-Jun-2009, 09:00

Vick Vickery

26-Jun-2009, 10:31

Well, you're both right and wrong. What your cord is hooked up to appears to be a siloniod (spelling might be off) that is used to sync the old Graphic flash gun (with bulbs) when used to fire the shutter. In use the cord ran to the flash gun which had a "fire" button on it and a flash bulb in its top...when you pushed the button the flash fired and the shutter tripped some miliseconds later when the fired bulb had reached full power. Its been many years since I used one of those, but I think I got it right. :)

BrianShaw

26-Jun-2009, 14:17

Its been many years since I used one of those, but I think I got it right. :)

Other than the spelling of solenoid :) you've got it. Could have been either a Graflex or a Heiland flash handle, though.

Vick Vickery

26-Jun-2009, 15:03

Told 'ya I couldn't spell!!! :):) At least I've got a little of my memory left!

John Cahill

26-Jun-2009, 16:12

Other than the spelling of solenoid :) you've got it. Could have been either a Graflex or a Heiland flash handle, though.
*******
Or a Kalart; or a Sun. If o.p. would like to see it work, rig up a coupla 1.5 v batteries, cock the shutter, then get some wire and touch it to the "household" plug. I'll bet that shutter fires.

Athiril

26-Jun-2009, 20:43

*******
Or a Kalart; or a Sun. If o.p. would like to see it work, rig up a coupla 1.5 v batteries, cock the shutter, then get some wire and touch it to the "household" plug. I'll bet that shutter fires.

Hrrm, sounds like it might be possible to make an x-sync from that if it does..

Vick Vickery

26-Jun-2009, 20:47

BrianShaw

27-Jun-2009, 07:33

That might be tough -- since the delay is a function of the solenoid stroke length. I don't know if one could adjust the solenoid to such a small stroke length to correspond with the X delay. Never tried it... I prefer just using flash bulbs.

27-Jun-2009, 09:14

Pictured is my new speed graphic.

The lens is a 127mm f/4.7 Ektar, in a No.2 Kodak Supermatic, that thing looks like a flash sync to me and comes with a cord with that comes off in two parallel prongs, i tried wiring it up to my flash sync cord direct to a flash, but it doesnt seem to even trip the flash at all.

I assumed it was a flash sync, am I wrong? I supposed I cant get X-sync without replacing the shutter?

My understanding is that some supermatics had x-sync, and some didn't. If you want to use a flash, you'll probably need a shutter with some sort of flash electrical connection on it. These will be either a round PC flash connection or the twin round prongs like the solenoid has.

JOSEPH ANDERSON

27-Jun-2009, 12:32

Athiril, That Is A Solenoid. The Shutter You Heed Is The Flash Suprematic With The F&m Flash Sync Slide Set At F For X Syinc. I Have Three Of These And They All Syinc X Flash When The Slide Is Set On F. I Think You Can Have Your Shutter (by A Professional) Fixed To Fire On X Syinc. Or As Brian Said Use Bulbs. Good Luck Joe A

Chauncey Walden

27-Jun-2009, 13:13

Or, a Flash Supermatic X.

JOSEPH ANDERSON

27-Jun-2009, 15:33

The Flash Supermatics With The F&m Slide Sync Will Give You X Sync. And
Yes That Is A Solenoid. You Could (i Think) Have Your Shutter Set For X Sync.
Or As Brian Said Use Bulbs
Joe A

Athiril

28-Jun-2009, 01:43

You'd have to figure out a way to make it fire the shutter and the strobe at the same time instead of delaying the flash as the SOLENOID is designed to do. Heh, Heh, Heh...spelled it right, didn't I!!! :):):)

Maybe add a solenoid before the flash as well.

Or couldnt I open the solenoid and cut out the coils and just wire it straight up?

Well I think 210mm would be better for portraits, so I'll just make sure I get an x-sync 210.

BrianShaw

28-Jun-2009, 09:02

It seems from your post that you need a refresher course in what a solenoid is/does. In simplest terms a solenoid is a electromechanical device that creates a mechanical movement. The electro part is the coils, that acts by connection of a battery/switch (which it seems you don't have) and the mechanical part is the wire/hook that is connected to your shutter. It is an electromagnet.

Please re-read some of the earlier posts and conduct the "experiment" suggested by Anscojohn. You'll see a demonstration of what the solenoid/synchronizer does.

You cannot "cut the coils out" and get X-synch. You'll get... drum roll, please... a metal tube that is no longer a solenoid and no longer capable of tripping the shutter.

Wade D

29-Jun-2009, 02:35

I have the same lens and shutter and it won't sync to fire a strobe. The later Supermatic X shutter will do it though. It has to do with the internal timing of the contacts which I don't really understand.

Athiril

1-Jul-2009, 18:53

Ah right oh, I had just the simplest form of it in my head

I'll rig up a small piece of metal on the lens barrel that sticks up, will put it at the position the shutter level is at when the shutter is fully open and a piece of foil or wire through the shutter level to brush it as the shutter level moves past it, just have to be careful not to zap myself on it like my home made cord for the toshiba flash i had.. though the trigger voltage is low on the sunpaks im using versus high on the toshiba so it shouldnt be as stingy if I do.

BrianShaw

1-Jul-2009, 19:07

I really admire your persistence... but why not buy a 127 or 135 Optar in Graphex shutter? They are seen often on ebay for quite reasonable prices. You could swap it out with the lens/shutter you currently have in just a few minutes. The solenoid would become redundant and could be removed also. Firing the shutter would be via cable release and firing the strobe would be via the synch. Could be a lot quicker, easier and more reliable than jury-rigging what you now have.

Athiril

1-Jul-2009, 19:20

Well shipping price is usually unreasonably high, sometimes I get good prices though depending on the seller, like $20 US for the shipping, and that also means waiting for a number of weeks before being able to shoot any models with it :)

Though I guess it is a bit on the short side for that kinda thing, so ideally looking for a longer lens rather than 'fixing' this one properly for flash sync, though have taken a few shots with it already. Luckily I had remembered to bring my dark change bag! :)

BrianShaw

1-Jul-2009, 19:24

I understand the shipping price issue; shipping is very expensive these days. I don't know who this person is, but if I were in your shoes I'd make him an offer. There's no telling if the shutter needs an overhaul or not but the glass looks good and the price isn't bad either. I have no idea how much it would cost to mail from LA to OZ, though.

Good luck in whichever solution you try!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Graflex-135-4-7-Optar-G54221_W0QQitemZ390034999570QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item5acfe5c912&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Athiril

1-Jul-2009, 19:29

300mm is what would suit my shooting style for models for the equivalent of what Im using now, but I think the depth of field might be a tad thin, but then if I use something wider, the background will be smaller/further away... hmm hmm... will try a 210.

thanks :)

BrianShaw

1-Jul-2009, 19:36

I'm not sure if you can pull that off easily with a Graphic press camera. I never measured the max bellows extension but...

Don't wait for "the perfect set of gear": shoot your models with what you have. Environmental portaiture in natural light works for me with Speed Graphics. Fun too!

For formal portraits (head and shoulders) I agree that longer lens is geenrally better. I crave a 300 for general shooting but have used a sharp 210 and soft focus 250 for portraits. These are used on a monorail with long bellows, though, so I know there are no bellows issues.

Athiril

1-Jul-2009, 19:47

the bellows seems pretty damn long though? I barely have to pull it out to get infinite, we'll see :)

I remember seeing the opposite of a recessed board too for a smaller graflex.

I shoot all my stuff on a 50/1.4 prime on my 30D, and 180mm on my RB67, both are near 30 degrees diagonally which I pretty good, and 90% of my stuff is outdoors :)

example (on the beach at night after the sunset totally disappeared):
http://modelmayhm-0.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090615/02/4a361548d3d98.jpg

BrianShaw

1-Jul-2009, 19:50

Ummm. How about if I buy you that lens and hand deliver it. Can I join you in a photo shoot?

You seem to have things under control!

BrianShaw

1-Jul-2009, 19:59

Well live and learn. I just measured film plane to end of rack on my Anniversary Graphic. When fully "in" (infinity position on vernier) it measures 26 cm and when fully extended it measures 36 cm. So you are right... a 210 would probably work just fine. I guess I never thought about it and never held a ruler up to the camera!

Athiril

1-Jul-2009, 20:10

lol! (that is one of the less risque shots)

I have 3 sites for you:

modelmayhem.com
net-model.com
myspace.com (yes really)

think it'd be far cheaper to even free (the above was tfp) to get willing models rather than come out here ;)

post tfp casting calls on modelmayhem with your general area, or closet large town/city etc and they'll come crawling out of the wood work :)

speaking of night shots, i need to buy an led torch to attach to my tripod to use for night focussing for model shoots :) (cheaper, easier, and more room than studio with black background).

good to know about the bellows length, would have thought that since i only use a small fraction of it for 127 it wouldnt be too far off for something like 210 as well :)