Problems Scanning B&W

[Harley Goldman]

I am scanning B&W negatives with an Epson 750. For the last few nights, I have been experimenting with various negatives and using both Epson Scan and Silverfast AI.

Using Epson, I am getting decent scans with either B&W negative or B&W positive, but with Silverfast, I am getting very strange results. Whenever I set up to scan with Silverfast as a negative, whether B&W or color, both ends of my histogram slam against the wall and clip. It doesn't matter what film I select in Negafix, I get the same result. When I switch to a positive, then the histogram behaves normally. This happens with various negatives, so it is not the negative.

There has to be some setting I have set up wrong, but heck if I can figure out what it might be. Any suggestions?

[rdenney]

I am scanning B&W negatives with an Epson 750. For the last few nights, I have been experimenting with various negatives and using both Epson Scan and Silverfast AI.

Using Epson, I am getting decent scans with either B&W negative or B&W positive, but with Silverfast, I am getting very strange results. Whenever I set up to scan with Silverfast as a negative, whether B&W or color, both ends of my histogram slam against the wall and clip. It doesn't matter what film I select in Negafix, I get the same result. When I switch to a positive, then the histogram behaves normally. This happens with various negatives, so it is not the negative.

There has to be some setting I have set up wrong, but heck if I can figure out what it might be. Any suggestions?

I have not gotten strange results when using my 750 with Vuescan, or with Silverfast. But I did at first--including strange highlight clipping on a very small scale. Then, I realized I'd checked the box to invoke digital ICE. ICE cannot be used when scanning black-and-white negatives--the silver grains look like dust to the IR channel. When I turned it off, the problem went away, and the scan times were dramatically shorter, too.

Oh, and another thing--make sure you are scanning 16-bit grayscale rather than 2-bit binary black and white. Or scan in color and convert to grayscale later (which for me occasionally works better for a particular negative).

Rick "offering a data point in case it applies" Denney

[Harley Goldman]

Rick,

Thanks for the suggestion. However, I never use Digital Ice, so it won't be that setting and it is unchecked. I also am scanning as 16 bit grayscale in B&W.

I have also scanned as color and then converted. If the source is set as a negative, I have the issue, whether color or B&W. The software works fine if I choose to scan a positive, but it badly clips in negative mode.

I have the input and output sliders all the way to the outside (0 and 255) and clips in the worst way. As soon as I change the scan source to positive, the histogram data narrows and moves to center as it should and works fine, no clipping. I can't figure it out, but I certainly appreciate the input!!!!

If I can't figure it out, I will try to download the software again and reinstall.

[Wallace_Billingham]

what OS are you using? I have found Silverfast to not play nice with my Vista System

[Gary Beasley]

Nothing says you can't scan as a positive and invert it afterwards. That's all the scanner software is doing anyway.

[Ed Richards]

I decided that life is too short to mess with Silverfast, so I gave up it up and scan with Vuescan. It gives you more control and you can tell exactly what it is doing. It is also cheap and one version runs all your scanners.

[Harley Goldman]

I am using a Mac with the latest OS and updates, etc., running it on a MacPro.

[Brian Ellis]

I scanned 4x5 b&w film using Silverfast in a 4990 many times without a problem. My guess is you have some setting wrong but I have no idea what it is. I'd suggest calling or emailing Silverfast in Sarasota, I had pretty good service from their tech support people. Silverfast isn't a simple program to use, I ended up buying a book titled "Silverfast: The Complete Guide" by Taz Talley and found it much more useful than the owner's manual. To me it and Vuescan were nix nox in terms of ease of use, Vuescan wasn't by any means intuitive and when I contacted Ed Whateverhisnameis - the guy who wrote it - for help I got a response about half the time, the rest of the time my questions were just ignored.

[rdenney]

Ed Whateverhisnameis - the guy who wrote it -

Ed Hamrick. I've always gotten good service from him when needed, which has been about twice in the six or seven years I've been using it.

Rick "agreeing that both Vuescan and Silverfast require some learning" Denney

[dwhistance]

Harley

I've never had the problem you describe, however I suspect it is because the Negafix settings have been loaded incorrectly. At the bottom of the Negafix window you should see the "Expert" switch (a head with a mortarboard). Click on that and a new window will open showing the settings being used. Given your description of the problem you will probably see that the endpoints are clipping the histograms at this point - which comes before the setting of the endpoints in the main screen. Adjust them so they don't clip anymore and you should be good to go. These settings should be retained when you close them down so it should be a once only adjustment for each film.

David Whistance

[Harley Goldman]

David,

Thahks for the idea. I will try it when I get home tonight. I also dropped Silverfast support an email last night, so I hope to hear from them today.

Much appreciated!!!!

[Tyler Boley]

David's advice is correct. In fact, it's worth trying moving them all the way out to make sure you familiarize yourself with the visual with those teeny histograms, and the end points in the resulting scans. I like and use Silverfast, but this very issue has always been problematic in my years of experience with it.
Tyler

[Harley Goldman]

In the expert screen, I moved the outside sliders all the way to the edges and saved it. The shadows worked, but the highlights are still blown and far off the right side on the histogram. Pulling the same negative up in Epson Scan, the histogram sits nicely in the middle, with no clipping at either end.

I have not heard back from Silverfast, so no help there so far.

[dwhistance]

Harley

I'll have a quick look at Silverfast when I go to my workshop tomorrow to see if I can figure out the cause. Have you changed the gamma setting (in the Options menu)? Did you readjust the main histogram after adjusting the negafix settings?

David Whistance

[Harley Goldman]

David,

I have the gamma at 2.2. I am assuming that is not an issue, since that setting works fine when the POS/NEG is set to positive. I only have issues when it is set to negative.

I tried gamma at 1.8. It made a minor difference, but the highlights are still badly clipping, with the histogram heading well off the right side.

The main histogram is set to 0, 0 and 255 both before and after making changes to the negafix. Color space compression is 0 and 255 above and below the grayscale bar, which does not affect the histogram.

[dwhistance]

Harley

One more thought, have you looked at the curves tab in the Negafix expert adjustments? It should show a nice smooth upwards curve. As the main negafix settings appear to have been incorrect it may be that this is awry as well?

David Whistance

PS - a further thought is the exposure adjustment activated (in the standard Negafix window) or is it still at 0.00?

[Harley Goldman]

The exposure adj. is 0 and the curve is an S, with the center of the S toward the lower right. I have played quite a bit with the curve, but can't get any improvement in blown highlights.