View Full Version : strangest negative issue ever had

sun of sand
23-Jun-2009, 17:01
White frosting or peppering on both sides of film ..worse on base and even on rebate of film
granular, powdery and rough to touch
transparent/translucent but at angles uhh opaque?

doesn't show up in contact prints but due to small nearly grain size specks wouldn't expect it to

Developed in Rodinal ..first use of new bottle 1:50 68 degrees intermittant agitation
new finger cots but only on one hand ..using night vision noticed where bare fingers on other hand touched rebate a milky residue was left but probably unrelated
brief water stop
fixer fairly fresh
HCA fresh
rinsed with multiple changes and sat all night ..too tired to dry
photo-flo and distilled

only noticed it hours into drying when placing into sleeves

Only thing I can think of is fixer crystallization but I highly doubt that
Could it be the rodinal somehow? Too strong HCA? HCA was eyeballed poorly and probably only got to 1:2 1/2 in the 500ml bottle

Doesn't wash off with alcohol and good scrubbing
Scratched off emulsion and still there on the base side
HCl dissolved it away
Nearly uniform but not quite ..some areas didn't really get any/much.
The long stand in water ..hard well water? I've done it before and nothing. There were 3 other negatives and they all received about equal coverage so doesn't seem likely as two were covered by the upper negative

24-Jun-2009, 03:36
Sounds liken a problem with the photo-flo & distilled water.


Brad Rippe
24-Jun-2009, 09:44
Sun, Did you say "sat all night"? Did you mean you left the film soaking all night? Usually that would cause the emulsion to float away from the film base. I don't know if that is causing the problem yoou are having, but perhaps you should try to wash and dry the film within an hour of developing.

Kirk Keyes
24-Jun-2009, 11:37
Sun, Did you say "sat all night"?

Perhaps it's a bit of reticulation or too much swell affecting the surface of the film?

sun of sand
25-Jun-2009, 06:24
I've soaked film before for for the night ..and seen no ill effects from doing so so I don't believe this is playing any part
No reticulation ..not wormy in the least. No emulsion floating ..think that takes a good two days or three to start softening up
It took a good scratching to remove emulsion on this negative and the dip in HCl didn't remove emulsion either.
Since the HCl dissolved the particles and when scratched the crystalline surface piles up it has to be a mineral
Calcium scale
Maybe my fixer was just exhausted but that comes as a real surprise. The deposit is so fine, even and grain-like in appearance it seems to have come about from something in the emulsion allowing it to appear on the surface when put into HCA.? I don't know. I think I read that. This was Kodak HCA shich is supposed to contain a sequestering agent though.
I think the scale occured in the fixer especially having noticed a "scum" occuring soon after touching the rebate of the film when placing the film into the fix. Could have been plain fingerprints but the scale is seen there and right next to the "fingerprints" a lesser deposit. My fingers may have isolated fixer/hard water in that spot on the film enough to show up immediately. ?
Maybe stop bath will help. Maybe just fresher fixer. Maybe filter the HCA before use. I used tap water for it which means it's loaded with potential calcium scale right now, I guess. Sulfite causes the calcium to show up. Maybe my fixer has too much sulfite in it/exhausted. Maybe Rodinal needs extra sequestering agent added in when developing. I don't know how this effects its developing, though.

I have Kodak Anti-Cal but I don't know what chemical this is or how much to add to a developer like Rodinal.

Just read about Incipient Reticulation that appears as heavy grain so that's something new to me ..but this is scale.

Greg Blank
26-Jun-2009, 12:28
[QUOTE=sun of sand;480537]I've soaked film before for for the night ..and seen no ill effects from doing so so I don't believe this is playing any part
No reticulation ..not wormy in the least. No emulsion floating ..think that takes a good two days or three to start softening up

Believe what you like.

In plain english it's a very bad policy. All the other stuff you want to consider takes second place to resolving the bad policy.

John Cahill
26-Jun-2009, 16:00
If you had been using a high-sulfite developer, I would say it is a scum of calcium sulfite because you did not use a fresh acid stop bath or fresh fixer or both.

sun of sand
27-Jun-2009, 08:07
My fixer was fairly exhausted. I hadn't bothered to check it because I'd used it for maybe 20 or so 4x5's ..maybe less
They were fixed by the time I'd turn the lights on so figured all was OK still
Warming up to temp for 15-20min in trays 3 or 4 times took its toll, I guess.
Won't be doing that anymore

Made up fresh fixer
stop bath
filtered the HCA
washed for normal time

I still had 2 negatives of 8 with a tiny calcium streak on em
I cleaned it off and have clean negatives

We've had heavy rains here past ten days so maybe more! calcium is in the water than normal
uhhh doubt it
It's a new problem. I used to use distilled for everything and then turned to tap thinking distilled wasn't a big deal during processing
If I don't get it solved I'll be going back
Been planning on a water softener but just haven't bothered. I don't drink this water and hard water for everything else hasn't bothered me too much.

Soaking overnight isn't policy. Done it 3 or 4 times in basically as many years
Still, untill someone proves me wrong -PE? lol I'll go ahead and believe that a 10-24hr soak in 60 degree water pretty safe ..24hrs on the outside of safe
Does soft water cause sooner softening?

Didn't people used to "fill" up a tub and stand develop for hours upon hours in Hubl paste ..to completion perhaps?
What if you put sod sulfate in the water? Will that retard swelling the same for lengthy immersion in water as it does in hot water?