Long 6x9 lenses?

[Wayne Crider]

I am wondering what the long lenses are that were manufactured especially for the 6x9 format, and which of any long lens could fit thru a baby Graphics standard?

[Chuck Pere]

I'm using a 180 Tele-Arton with my Century Graphic. It fits fine. Maybe not in the category of a really long lens.

[Gem Singer]

A small lens in a Copal 0 shutter such as the Nikkor 200M, Fujinon f9 180A, or Fujinon f9 240A would be ideal for the 6X9 baby Graphic.

Take a look at the lens comparison chart on the LF home page.

There aren't many long lenses mounted in smaller Copal 0 shutters. From my experience, these three would be excellent lenses for the 6X9 format.

[Gem Singer]

I forgot to mention, you will probably need to use an extension ("top hat") lens board in order to use the Nikkor 200M or the Fujinon 240A on the Baby Graphic. The camera only has about 190 mm of bellows extension.

[Dan Fromm]

Wayne, the original issue telephoto lenses for 2x3 Graphics were 8"/5.6 and 10"/5.6 TeleOptar/TeleRaptar. I didn't like my 10", never had an 8"; both have got good reports here and on www.graflex.org, so perhaps my 10" wasn't up to standard.

The longest lens that I'm aware of that's a comfortable fit on a 2x3 Speed is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto as fitted to Vinten F95 and AGI F134 and F139 aerial cameras. Big fat heavy lens, won't clear the lens throat but can be mounted entirely in front of the board. One drawback, it loses a couple of mm at each end of the frame to what I'd swear is the bellows.

Because of vignetting I now rarely use my 12"/4 tele; instead I use a 305/9 Apo Nikkor on a short string of LTM extension tubes in front of a #1 shutter. Adapters are needed at each end of the tubes. With this rig vignetting is not a problem.

Wayne, all kidding aside, if you want to use a longish lens, have a #1 you can use, and have or can find some LTM tubes front-mounting is not the worst possible option. Whether it makes sense for you depends on the focal length(s) you want to use, the cost of adapter(s), and the cost of alternatives in shutter.

About the 12"/4. When I visited Jim Galli a couple of years ago I showed mine to him. He was impressed, later bought my spare one.

GS, ain't no easily found extension boards for 2x3 Graphics. There may not be any at all.

Also, GS, as I measure on my Graphics, the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed's maximum extension is around 225 mm and the Century/2x3 Crown's is around 195 mm. There are reports on www.graflex.org of successful use of 203/7.7 Ektars and 203/7.5 Raptars on Century Graphics. That said, I doubt either will focus very close on a Century or 2x3 Crown.

Cheers,

Dan

[Gem Singer]

Thanks Dan. That probably rules out the Fuji 240A. It makes an excellent long lens for the 6X9 format when there is enough bellows extension available.

[Dan Fromm]

GS, I shoot a 305/9 Apo Nikkor, also a 240/10 Apo Saphir, 250/6.8 Beryl, 10.16"/9 Taylor Hobson Copying Lens, 260/10 Nikkor-Q (= Process Nikkor, actual focal length 266 mm) and a 300/10 Apo Saphir on my 2x3 Speed. All front-mounted, none a telephoto, and none vignettes. All focus to around 1:10. For longer lenses I use a tandem camera.

There's no reason why a 240A in shutter couldn't be hung in front of an LTM tube, with, of course, the right adapter and flange, on a 2x3 Graphic's board. One has to want to do it, that's all. There's more than one way to add extension.

In my experience, where movements aren't needed inexpensive tubes in front of the board can work well on 2x3 cameras. Remember that, practically speaking, 2x3 Graphics allow minimal movements. I wouldn't recommend this approach for 4x5, though, with narrow tubes like the LTM ones I use.

GS, the longest lens I shoot on 2x3 is a 480/9 Apo Nikkor. To get the extension needed I connect two Graphics front to back with a coupler. If I'd started with a proper 2x3 view camera I'd not have done this, but since I started with a pair of 2x3 Graphics (Pacemaker Speed, Century) the tandem camera approach was less expensive and involved less additional gear than getting a proper ...

Cheers,

Dan

[Oren Grad]

How big is the opening in a 2x3 Graphic's front standard?

[Dan Fromm]

48 mm square, Oren.

Some lenses with rear cells that won't pass through, e.g., the 58/5.6 Grandagon, can be mounted by unscrewing the rear cell from the shutter, attaching board with shutter to the front standard, and reattaching rear cell from behind. This doesn't work for all lenses. For example, my 210/5.6 Zircon's rear cell is too big to pass through the gate.

[Oren Grad]

Thanks, Dan. That's a pretty tight constraint. In that light, I'm afraid I don't have any further suggestions to offer.

[evan clarke]

Nikkor 270 tele...Evan Clarke

[Bill_1856]

Both the 8" and 10" Tele-Raptar lenses are small, light, and excellent, with coverage for 3.25x4.25 and 5x7 respectivly.

[Wayne Crider]

My old 203 Ektar just made bellows extension for infinity with my Century but that was it. I sold the lens off at least a year ago.

I would like to know what the back focus is on that Nikon 270 Tele. I can't find anything yet thru Google....

Just found it; It's 187.6 flange FD
The specs are on Carey Bird's site

[GPS]

My old 203 Ektar just made bellows extension for infinity with my Century but that was it. I sold the lens off at least a year ago.

I would like to know what the back focus is on that Nikon 270 Tele. I can't find anything yet thru Google.

187.6 mm.

[GPS]

...
Just found it; It's 187.6 flange FD
...

and edited long after my answer...:rolleyes:

[JOSEPH ANDERSON]

I Have Used A 203 Ektar With Flat Board On A 2x3 Pacemakre Speed With
Just A Little Extra Draw, Not Much Though. I Don't Know About The Crown
Or Century. Btw. What Are Ltm Tubes
Good Luck Joe A

[gary mulder]

Fujinon 8/300 T has back focus of ± 198mm

[Dan Fromm]

Leica thread mount extension tubes, Joe. For obsolete 35 mm rangefinder (most of 'em) cameras.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Leica thread mount extension tubes..

Or, better : home-made Rollei-mount extension tubes for your collection of apo-germinars (see Jörg Krusche in action with a 450 at a recent French MF/LF gathering)
http://www.cijoint.fr/cj200906/cijGVmqJZV.jpg

[Dan Fromm]

Leica thread mount extension tubes..

Or, better : home-made Rollei-mount extension tubes for your collection of apo-germinars (see Jörg Krusche in action with a 450 at a recent French MF/LF gathering)
http://www.cijoint.fr/cj200906/cijGVmqJZV.jpgEmmanuel, of course larger diameter is better, less risk of vignetting, but Joerg's SL66 shoots 6x6 which is, alas, smaller than 6x9. I'm doubt that LTM tubes would work for him. In his setup a narrow tube would put the limiting obstruction too close to the film plane.

More seriously, with focal lengths up to 300 mm putting the lens on 39 mm (nominal) extension tubes in front of a #1 shutter on a 2x3 Graphic's lensboard doesn't cause vignetting on 2x3. Similarly on my tandem Graphic, no vignetting up to 480 mm. I've sent you several rolls of film that make this point vigorously.

I calculate that vignetting will be a problem the 610 I recently got on the tandem; the culprit will be the rear camera's lens throat, not the tubes. Whether my calculations are correct is still an empirical question; there's evidence that the model I use to estimate lenses' image circles on, e.g., the tandem, is conservative.

LTM tubes have the great advantages of being easy to find and inexpensive.

If I were going to put a lens, be it in shutter or in barrel, on extension tubes in front of a 4x5 or larger camera's lens board, I'd want tubes with diameter greater than 39 mm or so.

Cheers,

Dan

[evan clarke]

Leica thread mount extension tubes..

Or, better : home-made Rollei-mount extension tubes for your collection of apo-germinars (see Jörg Krusche in action with a 450 at a recent French MF/LF gathering)
http://www.cijoint.fr/cj200906/cijGVmqJZV.jpg

I have just gotten a really nice SL66 and would like to adapt some of my collection of view lenses. I can't seem to find any actual Rollei lens mounts...Evan Clarke

[JOSEPH ANDERSON]

Thanks Dan And Emmanuel, I Never Would Thought Of 35mm Ex Tubes. It Makes Sense As Long As You Don't Go To Long. Have To Go Through My Junk Box.
Thanks Again. Joe A

[Mark Tweed]

Wayne,

I have the 2X3 Century and with the 203mm Ektar, agreeably a remarkable lens, I was never able to focus on anything less than infinity with it (if even that). That was with the lens mounted normally on a standard Graphic lensboard. My long lens for the diminutive Century, is a compact, 240mm Linhof-select Schneider Tele-Xenar. Schneider also made a 240mm and 270mm Tele-Arton, which with additional elements (and considerably more bulk) supposedly offered better correction than the Tele-Xenar design. The Tele-Artons also required larger filter sizes. I'm able to use 52mm filters for my entire collection of 2X3 lenses.

Mark

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

I can't seem to find any actual Rollei lens mounts...

[OFF-TOPIC since actually MF and not LF]
Evan : I think that there was an adaptor on the Rollei SL-66 catalogue, designed to mount view camera lenses ; like there was such an adaptor to mount microscope lenses on a Hasselblad body.
I know that the Zörkendörfer (Zörk, Zoerk) company in Germany offered in the past the service of re-mounting long focal lengths shutter-less Zeiss-Jena lenses on a SL-66 mount, may be you could contact them.
Their current web site says :
We also offer an adapter for the 300 mm Pentacon and 500 mm Practicar lenses to medium format cameras.
http://www.zoerk.com/

[JOSEPH ANDERSON]

I Just Put A 203 Ektar In A Flat Board On A 2x3 Speed And Can Focus Down To
Exactly 2 Meters. I Didn't Think It Would Focus That Close. I'll Look For A Lens Not So Critical For Portraits.
Joe A

[Wayne Crider]

Thanks Mark. More to add to the list.

[yronnen]

This is an old thread I know but two more for you. I have just spent the day making lens boards and mounting lenses for my Miniature Speed Graphic. A 12 1/2 inch Series VIII Cooke telephoto will fit and will focus down to about 10 feet ish. A 12 " Dallmeyer Dallon f 7.7 I am delighted to say would focus down to 6feet.

[Dan Fromm]

That's nice. At full extension my 12"/4 TTH telephoto -- one is on eBay now, look here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-Taylor-Taylor-Hobson-12-Inch-F4-Aerial-Camera-Lens-/310495848968 -- will focus somewhat inside 5 feet on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. Good lens, too, and bright.

I'm ashamed to admit that until now I'd never asked it how close it would focus on my 2x3 Speed. That it made infinity with inches to spare was more than enough ...

Mine is ex-F139 -- they were also put in F95 cones -- and was made to cover nominal 6x6. According to the VM the lens just covers 4x5. It covers 2x3 handily.

[yronnen]

Dan I read this thread last night and was a little alarmed that these lenses which I know are alright for use on a 4x5 Speed Graphic might require more bellows draw than would be available for use on a Miniature Speed. I am preparing for a short lightweight trip to the highlands (Scotland). On a bus with a folding bicycle. How about this for a bargain. About 2 months ago I was goofing about looking at the Stagecoach web site when I ended up booking a return trip to Inverness about 400 miles away for a pound each way. If I stay at the Youth Hostel there it is £14 a night so three nights in Scotland including return travel will cost less than fifty quid. I do however need to travel light.
My series VIII Cooke telephoto is fortunately a much smaller lens than yours, F5.6 maximum aperture. I have decided I am going to take a smallish tripod , Miniature Speed Graphic, two roll film holders one for B&W one for colour and pockets stuffed with film and small barrel lenses. I will take a 60mm Dallmeyer wide angle which is tiny, a Cooke 82mm series VIIb also tiny. 101mm Ektar and a 5" Ross Combinable which is a lightweight lens similar to a Protar VIIa and convertible. Total weight for all lenses less than two pounds.

[Dan Fromm]

Roger, what an inexpensive excursion. Enjoy it.

FWIW, at the short end our kits aren't that different. At the moment mine includes a 60/14 Perigraphe (tiny too, but front-mounted on a monstrous Ilex #3 shutter), 80/6.3 Wide Field Ektar in Supermatic and a 105/5.6 Saphir BX (= Zircon) in Copal #1. I have a 101 Ektar in Supermatic, prefer the Saphir BX. My Perigraphe won't quite make infinity on my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed, whose minimum flange-to-film distance is about 3 mm longer than your Miniature Speed Graphic's.

About longer lenses. I rarely use lenses much longer than 210 mm, in fact most of my 2x3 shooting is done with normal and shorter lenses. This because I shoot mainly in situations where the horizon (usually dense vegetation) is close. Y'r Ross Combinable should give you enough a long lens.

The longest lens I've managed to use on my 2x3 Speed is a 360. If you're interested in how I did it, you might want to read my lens diary. It is at: http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

Its occurred to me to wonder which distance you used for your tele lenses' close focusing distance. I reported film plane-to-subject distance.

Cheers, enjoy your trip,

Dan

[Roger Hesketh]

Dan I did not measure the close focusing distance of the 12" Dallon just took a guesstimate of it. I focused on a light bulb on the landing from the Study doorway. It would seem that it does focus closer to seven foot rather than six to the film plane at maximum extension of the Miniature Speed Graphic but that is still a pretty useful close focusing distance.
I'll tell you what I have mounted up today which works well and looks surprisingly good on the ground glass of the Miniature Speed, a Dallmeyer Adon.
For those who are not familiar with it the Adon is a variable telephoto extension which can be used with a lens like a teleconverter is on 35mm but which can also be used as a standalone variable focal length telephoto lens. It can cover film sizes from 2x3 up to 15x12 or even more.
The downside of course is poorer lens performance compared to a fixed separation telephoto lens. I know one should not judge lens performance by how it looks on the ground glass but this does look pretty good. A number of Ansel Adams' earlier photographs including 'Monolith the face of Half Dome' (1927) were taken using a Dallmeyer Adon as a standalone lens. He did say however that he would have preferred to use something better.
In use on the Miniature Speed at the Adon's minimum usable extension of 4" the effective focal length is 12" f10 and at maximum extension of the camera 8 inches, the effective focal length is 24" f19 .You can stop down further if required.
Clearly one is not going to be hand holding this combination but from the standpoint of allowing you to do something which would not otherwise be possible the Adon looks good.
Incidentally even at full extension this combination with an effective focal length in excess of 600mm still focuses to less than 6 feet that is with 8 inches of bellows draw.
I daresay a case could be made for using the Adon if possible at the maximum extension available on the camera in that way only rays closest to the axis of the lens would then be used to form the image on the film.

[Dan Fromm]

Roger, thanks for explaining how to use an Adon. I've never paid much attention to them, perhaps wrongly.