Platinum - Palladium - where to start

[Matus Kalisky]

Hello,

so - in a weak moment I have just ordered the book from Dick "Platinum and Palladium printing" where I guess I should find everything I need to know to try it out. I would like to try some 4x5 prints as that is the largest camera I have and it will probably be also good size for starting. Should I really like the process I may even consider a larger camera later, but that is not what I would like to discuss here now (my wife is sitting next to me as I write ;) ).

The true reason for me to try the technique is mostly driven by curiosity, but I also realized that I would like to challenge myself in the way of choosing the subject and the composition. Most of my photos up to now seem to be still too "full" - even those "moody" ones. Concentrating on a smaller print size (although there are clearly simpler ways than Pt/Pd 4x5 contacts) which requires clear and simple composition.

One of my first questions would be - where to get the necessary chemicals and tools. I am located in Germany so I would preferably buy in EU to save on the taxes and shipping costs and all the problems sometimes involved with shipping overseas.

For the technical side - up to now I used mostly FP4+ and TMY developed in Pyrocat HD (I do realize that I will need different exposure and development times with Pt/Pd) and would probably like to stay with this developer (should be suitable according to what I read on the topic)

I have to admit that in spite of working in physics, I am a bit scared by the stuff about the CI and density curves etc. - gives an impression that without densitometer and numerous tests you just can not get properly developed negative ...

As I am really at the beginning here - any advices or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Dennis]

Finding a source for chems and paper is your first concern... after learning what you need. Hopefully someone from Europe will jump in and offer advice.

Curiosity is a good attitude to go in with because the look and feel of pt/pd prints is different and will change what and how you see photography. Pyro is the developer of choice for a lot of photographers as you have already determined, and the density difference between a negative for silver vs platinum is less when using pyro due to the warm stain acting as density to pt/pd.

There are a lot of papers that work a little bit but it is really hard to get paper dialed in and working well. Start with one of the papers that a lot of people use, like Arches Platine. You don't need to invest in Platinum at first but understand that it has a different look to it than Palladium. Platinum added to the mix will add punch and density to the blacks and cool the print color some. Palladium is more velvety and soft, which is a good thing if you work with it. Palladium has less problems with paper compatibility and greater smoothness than Platinum... in my experience.

There are a lot of theories about coating paper. My personal findings are that hake brushes and foam brushes soak up too much of your mix. And I don't like the puddle pusher because I make a mess with it. My favorite and the brush I always suggest is a synthetic sable brush made for water color... a wash brush. For 4x5 an inch wide is wide enough. I use a deVinci but there are many others that work well. Water color wash brush. Synthetic Sable.

You need a light source. The sun if it is shining. A incandescent sun lamp for UV curing or suntanning. Florescent bulbs with high UV output. Black lights. Lots to choose from. I went to a lighting store and bought a bunch of 2 foot long florescent fixtures with built in ballast and bought BLB rated bulbs to fit them and screwed them down side by side.... works great.

[Tony Lakin]

Hello,

so - in a weak moment I have just ordered the book from Dick "Platinum and Palladium printing" where I guess I should find everything I need to know to try it out. I would like to try some 4x5 prints as that is the largest camera I have and it will probably be also good size for starting. Should I really like the process I may even consider a larger camera later, but that is not what I would like to discuss here now (my wife is sitting next to me as I write ;) ).

The true reason for me to try the technique is mostly driven by curiosity, but I also realized that I would like to challenge myself in the way of choosing the subject and the composition. Most of my photos up to now seem to be still too "full" - even those "moody" ones. Concentrating on a smaller print size (although there are clearly simpler ways than Pt/Pd 4x5 contacts) which requires clear and simple composition.

One of my first questions would be - where to get the necessary chemicals and tools. I am located in Germany so I would preferably buy in EU to save on the taxes and shipping costs and all the problems sometimes involved with shipping overseas.

For the technical side - up to now I used mostly FP4+ and TMY developed in Pyrocat HD (I do realize that I will need different exposure and development times with Pt/Pd) and would probably like to stay with this developer (should be suitable according to what I read on the topic)

I have to admit that in spite of working in physics, I am a bit scared by the stuff about the CI and density curves etc. - gives an impression that without densitometer and numerous tests you just can not get properly developed negative ...

As I am really at the beginning here - any advices or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Hi
http://www.silverprint.co.uk/, they are in London and should be able to supply everything you require, with the exchange rate as it is you should get a good deal.

Good luck:)

[Matus Kalisky]

- Dennis -

thank you for your tips. Indeed it seems that platinum is quite a bit more expensive than the palladium, so it makes sense to start with palladium only


Hi
http://www.silverprint.co.uk/, they are in London and should be able to supply everything you require, with the exchange rate as it is you should get a good deal.

Good luck:)

unfortunately they do not seem to offer neither the kits nor the platinum/palladium components ... :( ... but I may try to contact them to see whether they would be able to offer it.

[Jimi]

Try this: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/ - here you are able to get anything you need. Wolfgang is a great fellow.

[Tony Lakin]

- Dennis -

thank you for your tips. Indeed it seems that platinum is quite a bit more expensive than the palladium, so it makes sense to start with palladium only





unfortunately they do not seem to offer neither the kits nor the platinum/palladium components ... :( ... but I may try to contact them to see whether they would be able to offer it.

Hi Mateus
Sorry if i misled you, last time I looked in the Silverprint catalogue they did have the Platinum/Palladium compounds listed however they were very expensive in £ Sterling I purchased my last Ammonium Tetrachloroplatinate (II) from Artcraft in the U.S. as they were a lot cheaper (where I live we are never asked to pay any duty so there is no hassle) everything you require will be much cheaper from the U.S.
Good luck

[hmf]

- Dennis -

thank you for your tips. Indeed it seems that platinum is quite a bit more expensive than the palladium, so it makes sense to start with palladium only



unfortunately they do not seem to offer neither the kits nor the platinum/palladium components ... :( ... but I may try to contact them to see whether they would be able to offer it.

If you've got the latest edition of Arentz's book, it will give you information on the NA2 method, which uses only very small quantities of a very dilute Pt solution, for contrast control. I was taught this method, which is really quite manageable technically, and more reasonable financially. Good luck.

[Matus Kalisky]

- Jimi -
thanks - it seems I should be able to get the necessary stuff there.

- Tony -
no need to apologize. I would buy in the US, but as I moved to Muesnter, the duty office here makes me crazy. Not that I payed taxes on EVERYTHING I bought outside the EU (a lot of photo stuff before our trip to New Zealand), but they even required a proof of the value - I basically had to bring print-outs from may PayPal account. In some case the tax together with shipping cost equalled the value of the product :(

- hmf -

yes - it should be the second edition. Saving (later) the Pt makes a lot of sense - it is quite a bit more expensive than the Pd (220 euro versus 80 for the same amount).

[Petzval Paul]

Have you tried other hand-coated processes before? If not, it might be wise to try a few Van Dyke prints (which look similar to Palladium prints and require a negative with somewhat similar characteristics) or something else relatively inexpensive (such as cyanotypes, which are easy and cheap) just to get the hang of coating the paper, exposing, etc.

Best of luck with your endeavor! Please post some shots, too.

[Matus Kalisky]

No, actually not. I have done some contact printing with mixed success on some older fixed greade fiber paper, but it was a lot of fun. I will check the cyanotypes - I have of course heard about it, but do not know too much details yet.

I plan to shoot some studio shots for this purpose. Only recently I tried my studio flash with 4x5 for the first time and I quite enjoyed it and the results were quite fine too ...

[Matus Kalisky]

No, I do not have any prints yet - I am getting through the book and studying.

But in the mean time I have come across a process called Kallitype in which only the toning of the image is done with platinum/palladium, what is supposed to save on these precious metals. The process itself seems to be similar with Pt/Pd process. The results indeed resemble the Pt/Pd prints (well, based on what I have seen on the net)

Does anybody around had an experience with this process?

[eddie]

i intended to do kallitype prints but just have not begun. i have been doing van dyke brown instead. again, a similar process that "they" say looks like a P/P when toned in the same.

the reason i have been doing VDB instead of kallitype is that there is fewer steps for VDB. so it was easy just to fall into a groove. try them both. very cheap when compared to P/P.

if you have an apug membership i have posted many VDB images in my gallery (http://www.apug.org/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=9453&cat=500) most untoned.

eddie

[Tsuyoshi]

Matus,

It would be great if you can take a workshop first. That will clarify a lot of things you cannot understand by reading.

Regardless, I would just simply try with Palladium printing. It is a simpler process compared to Kallitype (less steps). If you buy chemistry in quantity, it would not be that expensive actually. Plus they last indefinitely.

You can try Vandyke and learn how to coat and others associated with handcoating methods in general if you like. Vandyke is POP (no developing) and platinum/palladium as well as kallitype is DOP (requires a developer), so they are slightly different (more steps and different quality).

Get palladium powder, ferric oxalate (try artcraft chemicals), citric acid and hypo clear (for clearing) and potassium oxalate (developer). You will need a brush and some paper (like Arches Platine to start with). Mix them up and start making prints.

Having said that, Kallitype is quite fun as you can change the color of prints a lot more than platinum/palladium could do. Here are some of images:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shinnya/

Let me know if you have other questions.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

[Matus Kalisky]

-eddie-

nice gallery. You have large variety of very different work there. I especially like the portraits.

-Tsuyoshi-

thank you. The world (I wanted to say flickr) is small. I have JUST seen your work there before I came back to check here. You are right - I will probably start with Palladium first - before I will get another book ;)

I have already though of taking a workshop, but they are rather scarce here in Germany. If one finds one the prices are rather high and I have no references - and to take a workshop for 200 - 300 euro that is 1 or 2 days long without someone's recommendation is a risk. But yes - I would go for it if I knew it is worth it.

If possible I would like to see more of your work on Pt/Pd or Kallitype.

[eddie]

check with Quinn Jacobson <wetplate@gmail.com>. he is a wet plate guy at heart but he does salt and albumen prints and i am sure he probably has done VDB. he is in germany. tell him i sent you. they are all basically similar as for the steps involved...coating, exposing , developing etc etc. you will find crossing over to be very very easy.

i have never tried P/P as i do not want to lay out that much cash. but from the little i know about it it has significant variances with regard to how much of each chemical etc. so i do not fully agree with the above about starting there. i bought all the bulk chemicals for VDB (you only need one or two more for kallitype) from artcraft for like $70. that equates to about 1.5 lifetimes of chems. i have mixed up 6-8 batches of VDB and barely dented my supply (obviously the silver is the most expensive part but you only use like 4 g at a time).

no matter what raod you go down it will be fun. enjoy it and keep us posted.

eddie

[Payral]

Hey Matus,

My next public Pd/Pt printing demonstration will be on saturday 3 & sunday 4 october "7e Rencontres Photographiques du Genevois" - Saint Julien en Genevois - It's in France at the Geneva (Swiss) border - Not too far from Germany
Some more informations (in French) here:
http://www.contactimages.org/

[Matus Kalisky]

- eddie -
thanks. I managed to find the webpage of Quinn Jacobson and it really seems that he is purely a wet plate guy - he offers also workshops on that topic. But I may drop him a mail.

Yes - the chemistry is not that expensive - the most expensive part is are the Pt/Pd salts. What will cost me more will be the update of some of my darkroom stuff (rather limited now) - among others a "nicer" contact printing frame that allows to check the exposure without moving the print. One of the important points will be to find some decent UV light source for reasonable price.

- Payral -
Very nice - I am actually quite far from Geneva - about 850 km ( I am in the northern part of Germany) but I am coming here and then there as I work for the ALICE experiment at CERN. I do not know whether I will be there in that period, but if you live close by and would be interested and have time - maybe we could meet. I have looked at you webpage - beautiful work.
Actually - may I ask where do you order the chemicals/stuff?

[Payral]

Matus,

I live at the Geneva border on the French side between Geneva and Annemasse so we could meet when it will be possible for you.
About chemicals stuff, I buy Pd and Pt from B&S and FO too. Other stuff from Prophot (Paris) and Araignée Rouge in Geneva. I make my own Potassium Oxalate and sometimes my own Ferric Oxalate.

[eddie]

- eddie -
among others a "nicer" contact printing frame that allows to check the exposure without moving the print. One of the important points will be to find some decent UV light source for reasonable price.



the frames come up for about 50-75 bucks all the time.

i use the sun....all year round. works great. it even works on an overcast day.....UV knows no cloud cover....

[Liz Allen]

Here is a website that has an enormous amount of information on platinum/palladium printing.... It is the best I have ever found...

http://home.att.net/~jeffrey.d.mathias/

go for it... You will get hooked!!
Liz
http://photosplatinum.com