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civich
18-Jun-2009, 11:52
Ektar, Vitax, Lanthar, Claron, Heliar, Plasmat, Aerogor, Verito, Dagor, Xenar, Raptar, Artar, Dogmar, Versar, Helios, Tessar, Copal (oops, how'd that get in there?), Protar .........Why? Why?
Seriously, I understand that many of these names refer to lens designs or lines but do the actual words signify anything or are they just some late nineteenth and early twentieth century marketing scheme to make the lenses sound exotic or scientific? Were the lens designers just having fun? (sort of a esoteric optical designer's "weird name game"?) Is there possibly some formula for lens design naming - many of the suffixes are similar (especially 'ar')? Are those pesky ancient Greek and Latin languages involved?
Or, my choice, the Klingons really are here but instead of conquest they got caught up in some sort of weird Klingon optical design fetish cult.:eek: ........please advise.
-Chris

Darren Kruger
18-Jun-2009, 12:16
Ektar, Vitax, Lanthar, Claron, Heliar, Plasmat, Aerogor, Verito, Dagor, Xenar, Raptar, Artar, Dogmar, Versar, Helios, Tessar, Copal (oops, how'd that get in there?), Protar .........Why? Why?

Seriously, I understand that many of these names refer to lens designs or lines but do the actual words signify anything or are they just some late nineteenth and early twentieth century marketing scheme to make the lenses sound exotic or scientific?

it's all marketing. which company wants to sell the same lens as another? Would that other company allow it? Think along car names.

For the design names, I think they are generally based off the name of the first lens of that design.

-Darren

Arne Croell
18-Jun-2009, 12:56
A few have meaning, and yes, the dreaded Latin and Greek are sometimes involved. The best known example is the Tessar, from Greek Tessares for 4, since it contains four lenses. The Heliar is name after the greek word helios for sun. Steinheils "Unofocal" is named that way because the four lens elements have the same focal length (2 of them negative 2 positive). Anything with -gon in its name is derived from the Greek "gonia" for angle and usually mean a wide angle (the same for the latin "angulus"). The Petzval is named after its inventor; the Leitz Hektor was supposedly named after Max Berek's (the designer) dog; some have a part of the company name in them (Rodenstocks Rodagon, Ronar..). Many others are just trying to vaguely invoke some property or superiority (Voigtländers "Ultron").

Ernest Purdum
18-Jun-2009, 12:56
Yes, the pesky languages are involved, though by no means in all. A good many of the earliest names derive from Greek. Take a Greek word for a desirable quality, hang an "ar" ending on it if it has a normal angle or "gon" for a wide angle and you've got a lens name.

"Dagor" is short for Double (or Doppel if you're a German) Anastigmat Goerz.

I think "Ektar" is a lens wanting you to know that it was made by Eastman Kodak.

"Verito" and "Veritar" suggest a "true" image. "Vitax" Might have something to do with life. I am guessing the main criteriion for some of the other names Wollensak hung on their non-anastigmat products was that they start with the letter "V".

Arne Croell
18-Jun-2009, 13:01
Btw, what do you get when you translate Heliar to German? A Sonnar... !
(helios(greek)=Sonne (german)=sun)

Drew Wiley
18-Jun-2009, 13:04
Check out Rudolf Kingslake's book on lens history. A lot of details about competing
designs and marketing terminology.

Bill_1856
18-Jun-2009, 13:38
A neat thread (and answers -- no smart asses).

rdenney
18-Jun-2009, 14:25
Never underestimate the importance of trademarking. Even back in the day, a trademark had to be unique, and uniquely associated with the product. Then as now it could not be a word in common usage.

Nowadays, the first thing people do when pondering a business or product name is google it to see if the domain is available. Eventually, they'll do a formal trademark search to make sure it's not in use in a similar industry in an area where they want to work.

Latin and ancient Greek, being languages no longer used in daily speech, are good sources for words that meet these criteria. Acronyms and derivatives from inventors and company names are other good sources of unique words.

Right from the start, though, product names were devised to either protect the brand rights of its owner, or to render the word so common in regular speech as to provide free advertising. Eastman wanted "Kodak" to fall into the latter category, but it never really did in the way that, say, Kleenex and Coke did. And those manufacturers try to prevent their product names from falling so deeply into common speech that they become a word (see first paragraph about being unable to trademark common words).

Rick "trademarks appearing in this post are the property of their respective owners" Denney

civich
18-Jun-2009, 14:58
Great info! Now when I follow threads about lenses I won't be quite so mystified by the names. DannL: apparently consternation with lens names didn't start with me; great article about concern for the proliferation of needlessly fancy lens names in 1917.
-Chris

Emmanuel BIGLER
19-Jun-2009, 01:39
some property or superiority

Arne will confirm about the correct pronunciation, but once upon a time a Gerrnan manufacturer registered the trade name "Summar".
Too bad for another manufacturer who wanted to evoke a summit in optics, but fortunately the trade name "Symmar" could be registered as well without any conflict ;)

Per Madsen
19-Jun-2009, 02:08
some property or superiority

Arne will confirm about the correct pronunciation, but once upon a time a Gerrnan manufacturer registered the trade name "Summar".
Too bad for another manufacturer who wanted to evoke a summit in optics, but fortunately the trade name "Symmar" could be registered as well without any conflict ;)

I think that the Symmar name was chosen due to the symmetrical construction of the lens.

Peter K
19-Jun-2009, 02:15
I don't know "Summar" was derivied from sum or "summen" = hum, but Summitar, Summaron, Summarit, the royal Summarex and the little Summicron are trade names of Leitz.

Arne Croell
19-Jun-2009, 08:49
The pronounciation of Summar and Symmar is slightly different, at least to the German ear - the y in Symmar is pronounced like an U-Umlaut (ü), not like the regular u. Ok, my wife (who is not a German native) tells me she can never hear the difference between a vowel and its umlaut version, especially in the case of u-ü....

To my knowledge the Symmar name did refer to the symmetry of the lens - the symmetry of the first lens ( a Dagor type) bearing that name! In subsequent models, it was just an established trade name and the lenses were not necessarily symmetric any more. An extreme example are the Super-Symmars (both HM and XL) which are anything but symmetric!

Dan Fromm
19-Jun-2009, 09:58
Arne, how dare you doubt what the manufacturer says? I expect more heresy from you about Schneider's and Rodenstock's claims of full apochromatic correction.

Brother Bigler and his pals deride DIN Norm 19040, page 5, on which these makers' claims of apochromatism are based. See http://www.galerie-photo.info/forum/read.php?f=1&i=6514&t=5824#reply_6514 and http://www.galerie-photo.info/forum/read.php?f=1&i=79611&t=79575#reply_79611 .

Cheers,

Dan

Arne Croell
19-Jun-2009, 10:20
Emmanuel, I checked when the trademarks for Schneiders Symmar and Leitz's Summar were registered: The Symmar was 23 years earlier than the Summar (1913 vs. 1936)!

Dan, I won't go there: I learned my optics in microscopy, and Apo has a very well defined meaning there. I'll stick to that, regardless of other DIN definitions about a certain reduction in the secondary spectrum..

Back to the name heresy, although not exactly LF: Some of Zeiss' Sonnars are Planars (like the 85mm F/2 ZM Sonnar), one of their Tele-Tessars is an Oxyn type, etc. Its actually nothing new: They used the name Biogon for a totally different construction ( a Sonnar WA derivative) before WW II compared to the better known design with the large negative menisci after WW II. Both were designed by Bertele, though, but I doubt that had anything to do with it.

Dan Fromm
19-Jun-2009, 11:30
Arne, we both know that trade names often have little to do with design type. My two favorite examples are EKCo's trade name Ektar ("our best in that line") and Boyer's trade name Saphir.

OP, Boyer's lens names don't fall into the usual pattern. No -stig-, -ar, -gon, -or, or -centric chez Boyer. They usually named their lenses after gems: Apo-Saphir, Apo-Zircon, Beryl, Corail, Emeraude, Jade, Onyx, Opale, Perle, Saphir, Topaz, Zircon. They had several exceptions, among them Menisque, Menix, and (no kidding) Planar. Boyer's Planar is a simple meniscus.

You can't trust anyone. Did you know that Telecentric is a Ross trade name for a telephoto lens?

Ernest Purdum
21-Jun-2009, 18:14
When the question arose, I knew I had a book that discussed it. I couldn't find the book then, but now have, so here is a lot of information courtesy of B.B. Talley and his "Aerial and Terrestrial Photogrammetry" from 1938.

From the property of correction for astigmatism comes the "stigmat" lenses with a variety of names as follows: Aristostigmat (best stigmat), Holostigmat (completely stigmatic), Isostigmat (uniformly stigmatic), Orthostigmat (stigmat without distortion, Neostigmat (a new anastigmat), Planastigmat (anastigmat with flat field, Velostigmat,
(rapid stigmat).

Aplanatism of the image (aberration-free image) is claimed in such names as Aplanastigmat, Aplanat, Aplanatic and Antiplanat.

Wide angular coverage is indicated by Eurygraphe, Euryplan (eurus = wide), Perigraphy, Periplan (peri = around) Eurygonal, Hypergon, (hyper = excess), Teragonal (teras = extraordinary, gone = angle).

Distortion-free images are claimed for lenses wearing such names as Rectlinear, Rectigraph, Rectoscope (rectum = straight) Orthor, Orthoplastic, Orthosscopic (orthos = correct) Linear, Collinear (line for line), Homocentric (same center of projection), Alethar (alethes = true), Verax.

Flatness of field is suggested by Aristoplan, Planar and similar names.

Universality of use is suggested by Polynar, Polyplast, polycentric (poly = many), Pantar, Pantogonal, Pantoscope (pan = all).

Lenses having provision for the enlargement of the image of distant objects may carry the prefix tele = far, and may be classified under the name of telephotos among which are Telecentric, Telinear and Bis-Telar.

Some lenses are given names which are indicative of the number of elements in their construction : Octonar, Sextar, Tetrastigmat Tessar, (tessares = four), Trionar Trioplane, Triosymmetric, Triotar, Triplane (tri = three), and others are named for some peculiarity of construction, such as Unifocal (the four component lenses have the same focal length), Primoplane (perfect correction in the primary plane).

Some lenses indicate rapidity by their names, such as Celor; and others of luminosity, such as Clarior, Glaukar, Leukar, Lucidor.

Some are named after stars or other bright celestial bodies, such as Heliar, Helioganal (helios = sun), Phoebus, Stellor (stella = star). Orion, Syrius, Fulmenar (fulmen = lightning; and others imply perfection such as Artar, or power such as Dynar.

So now you know much more than you ever expected to or wanted to. I have put initial capitals on the lens names and shortened one paragraph, but all the information is Captain Talley's.

Sorry about the one that is suggestive of colonoscopy, but I didn't name it.