Komura 500mm f7 lens/copal#3 shutter info needed

[Washington Bob]

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum and LF photography and have lots of questions. I have a Linhof Technika IV..1957..and a Komura 500mm f7 lens in a Copal #3 shutter was included in the kit with this camera.

In my reading on the net and here it seems that a 500mm lens is not all that common. This lens is mounted in a Technika lens mount so I am pretty sure it was used on this camera. It also had a dedicated spot in the camera hard case.

Has anyone here heard of this Komura 500mm lens and what kind of performer do you think it is.

What use would a lens like this be for? Landscapes perhaps?

I apologize for my questions but this is my first LF camera. I come from 35mm/120 roll film background and I am excited about my first 4x5 camera.

Any help is deeply appreciated.

from the foothills of Mt. Rainier,
Washington Bob

[Paul Ewins]

It is a telephoto lens and was also offered by Komura in Bronica 6x6 mount and a variety of 35mm mounts. The catalog lists it under 4x5 lenses, not 4x5 & 5x7, so presumably only 4x5 gets sharp coverage.

On 4x5 a 500mm lens is probably a little too long for portraits but may be useful for isolating individual elements in a landscape. That is about a much as I can tell you.

[Washington Bob]

Thankyou Paul,
I mounted it on the Linhof today and it indeed focuses just fine. Does the catalog mention when they were made?

This kit was put together by a photographer the worked for the National Geographic Society and was used extensively around the world. He passed the kit along to another world traveling photographer that used it in Africa for photos.

That photographer in turn passed it along to me. I will more than likely not be going so far but will use it to photograph the landscapes of Washington State.

Thanks again, Paul, for your help. I have so much to learn.
Bob

[aduncanson]

See the following

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/komura_1.html

And noodle around the site a bit, there is lots of good information there. Be wary of the Komura catalog, where they say angle of view, they mean angle of view on 4x5, not the lenses angle of coverage.

Good luck!

[Washington Bob]

Thankyou aduncanson,
I really appreciate you lead about the Komura lenses. It is obscure but that is why forums like this are so great.
Bob

[Ernest Purdum]

Regarding when it was made, by the early "70's Komura had developed a line of LF lenses from 47 to 500mm. I do have a listing showing coverage for 5" X 7" and a 240mm image circle. Yours could have been made later, of course.

As you say, 500mm lenses for LF are not all that common. From the foothills of Mt., Rainier, you should have lots of occasions to shoot distant landscapes if the present (comparative) drought doesn't cause a paucity of nice after-the-thunderstorm shooting days.

At the time, Komura was a major source of after-market lenses for 35mm and MF. as well as LF.

[Washington Bob]

Hello Ernest,
Thankyou for your posting. I have been tracking this lens on the net and very little mention of it. I will have lots of opportunity to try it out as I live in a beautiful area of foothills with a towering Mt Rainier in the background.

It will indeed focus as I have tried it but exposed no film as yet....more to learn about this Linhof Technika IV.

Bob

[Bob Salomon]

Hello Ernest,
Thankyou for your posting. I have been tracking this lens on the net and very little mention of it. I will have lots of opportunity to try it out as I live in a beautiful area of foothills with a towering Mt Rainier in the background.

It will indeed focus as I have tried it but exposed no film as yet....more to learn about this Linhof Technika IV.

Bob

There are two components to focusing on a Technika. One is will it focus to infinity. The second is how close will it focus?

Since at least 1976 Linhof has not recommended any lens longer then a tele 360mm on a 4x5 Technika so your lens either has an exceptionally short flange focal length or it is on an extended lens board or it is marked 500mm but it's actual focal length may be well short of that. Of the 3 the second choice would seem the most likely.

[Washington Bob]

Hi Bob,
This lens sits on a Copal #3 shutter, then on about a 1/2 inch wide aluminum collar and then onto a Linhof lens board. About 1 3/4 inches of the lens extends behind the lens board. Perhaps it was really made to be used with the 120 film back?

I have so much to learn but hope to ask enough good questions so that I can familiar with using this fine camera.

[Paul Ewins]

Bob (& Bob S),
although the brochure doesn't explicitly say so I believe that it is a true telephoto design. The 35mm version is 344mm long, so adding 46mm for the mirror box that would be 390mm from the front element to the film plane. The 4x5 version is only 185mm long and it looks like 3/4 of that is forward of the lensboard, so I would estimate a bellows draw of around 255 - 260mm for infinity focus. The weight is listed at 986g.

Washington Bob, most long focal length LF lenses are not telephoto design, so generally a 500mm lens would require a bellows around 500mm long to focus to a reasonable distance. That is fine with a monorail, but most folding cameras (Field, Press or Technical) don't have bellows that are long enough. The other issue is that when you have a heavy front element hanging a long way past the lensboard on a camera that is racked all the way out the whole lot becomes unstable, not to mention the extra stress on the front standard.

It does sound like the lens has been used on the camera in the past so providing it doesn't feel to wobbly when you set it up on a tripod it is probably going to be OK. It isn't something I would do on a Speed Graphic, but a Linhof Technika is built to more precise standards and should handle the stresses better.

[Washington Bob]

Hi Paul,
Thankyou so much for your posting...it is most helpful. I will shoot some photos with it and we shall see.
thanks again,
Bob

[Gene McCluney]

I have this Komura lens. It is a telephoto design, covers 4x5, but vignettes on 5x7. Will focus infinity and a bit closer on press-type cameras with limited bellows.

[Archphoto]

There is a 7/500 Komura in Copal 3 on ebay, nr 280354416240, BuyNow price of $ 500,-

Peter

[IanG]

Komura made some excellent lenses, that 500mm is definitely a Telephoto lens so can easily be used on most 5x4's.

Ian

[Robert Oliver]

does anybody know if the lenses they sold for medium format were the same they sold for 4x5? specs seem similiar, including the 77mm filter diameter.

[Paul Ewins]

Robert, the Komura catalog shows all three and although it looks like the same lens in terms of optical formula there are differences in the barrels of all three. The 35mm and MF versions are basically a barrel mounted lens with a helicoid extension tube tacked on the back. The diaphragm looks to be in roughly the same place on all three lenses, but there is no way to tell if the rear group is the same diameter. The only part that looks to be the same is the very front of the lens.

Just a guess here, but if you are looking to pull apart the MF version and screw it straight into a Copal 3 then you are probably out of luck. If you can do your own machining then it is probably feasible as it looks like there are big air gaps between the shutter and the lens groups which would leave plenty of space for adapter sleeves.

Perhaps if Gene or Bob could measure the diameter of the rear element you would have something to compare against any MF lenses that may come your way.

[Ernest Purdum]

I'd want to lash up some way of checking image circle before doing any disassembly.

[Washington Bob]

Hi Everybody,
Thankyou all for your help in solving this lens identity. The photographer that passed this kit along to me never used the 500mm lens...only the two other lenses..210mm and 90mm Schneiders.
Bob

[IanG]

I'd want to lash up some way of checking image circle before doing any disassembly.

Fit it to a 10x8 camera to check the image circle.

Ian

[Gene McCluney]

Fit it to a 10x8 camera to check the image circle.

Ian

I have shot with my 500mm Komura in Copal 3 many times. It covers 4x5, but vignettes on 5x7 quite severely.

[Paul Ewins]

Fit it to a 10x8 camera to check the image circle.

Ian

Actually, that may not help since the MF and 35mm versions probably have baffles to restrict stray light which will cut down the image circle. The Pentax 500/4.5 is a similar case in that while you could special order one with a 6x7 mount the image circle of the standard lens only covers 35mm. I think only disassembly will give a definitive answer.

[jamesklowe]

(this might be a dumb question..)

but what size lens board will it fit into?

[Gene McCluney]

(this might be a dumb question..)

but what size lens board will it fit into?

It will fit into any lens board that is big enough to take a Copal 3 shutter. I have mine mounted on a Crown Graphic lens board. It is just barely big enough. There aren't many lens boards smaller than a Crown Graphic.

[Archphoto]

A Technika board too, but to use the Copal 3 on a Linhof Master you will need to raise the shutter about 3-4mm of the lensplate with a ring between the lensplate and the shutter.
That is how my 250mm Imagon is mounted.

Peter