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Greg Liscio
8-Jun-2009, 17:15
Can I please hear from Ebony SV45U2 owners:
- What you like
- What you would change
- How is folding, carrying
- If you could trade it for what you paid, what would you get?

Thanks for all the valuable info. Great SITE !!!

Steve Hamley
8-Jun-2009, 19:28
The "photographic" differences between the U and U2 are rear shift and 65mm more bellows. The non-photographic differences are $500 and a pound. The U2 may have two tripod sockets versus one for the U.

If using a 19" versus 18" non-telephoto or a 800mm tele versus a 720mm tele is important, then the extra bellows is useful.

What I like (common to both):

The controls are very conventional (no unconventional rear movements) and fall to hand easily. All the controls can be easily distinguished from under the dark cloth. The camera "disappears" when using it.

The camera(s) accommodates an amazing range of lenses with one bellows. It's nice to not have to carry and fool with a bag in the field for most wide lenses.

I like the asymmetric rear movements a lot.

Ebony wood is very durable. The oiled ebony wood doesn't mar easily and can be readily touched up with Watco Danish oil or any other good quality oil. The titanium and aluminum parts don't show wear like black anodized aluminum. Worn off black anodizing turns me off, YMMV.

The camera rails can be tightened or loosened by the user to accommodate shrinkage and swelling from humidity and temperature via the screws on the top of the rails. You usually don't have to do this, but if you live in the east and visit the west or reverse, this feature can be nice.

I like the bubble levels on the rear standard with the mirror lid. Very useful.

There are some useful accessories like the large lens shade/"rain hood" which does the same thing as the umbrella in Dykinga's book and allows you to shoot in light rain. It's a pain when it's not raining, although it's a very effective lens shade. The magnifier is also allegedly nice but I haven't tried it.

What I'd change:

The front latch is "floppy". A Deardorff style latch would be better.

I wouldn't mind one in mahogany to save the pound difference between ebony wood.

That's about it for changes. Either one is pretty much the perfect folding field camera. I also have a RW45 and use it rarely because I like the SV45U so much the weight doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what you mean by "How is folding and carrying". You fold it and carry it. Folding is easy but unlike some other cameras, the movements must be zeroed to fold. The U2 has a shelf protruding from the rear of the bed that the rear shift mechanism is built on, so when folded it has a 1" or so shelf that makes the folded length longer than the U.

"If you could trade it for what you paid, what would you get?"

Another one, or one in mahogany. Possibly a 45SU but I'd have to think about it.

Hope you get your dream camera.

Cheers, Steve

Eric Leppanen
8-Jun-2009, 20:24
I'll pipe in here as a former SV45U2 owner:

What I liked:
- Ability to use long lenses. I bought the U2 (versus the slightly lighter SV45U) due to it ability to support a Fuji 450C (for both distant and close-up subjects) and Fuji 600C (distant subjects only; I had SK Grimes make a two inch extended lensboard for the 600C so the bellows would have slack for movements at/near infinity).
- Asymmetric movements were frequently a major time-saver, particularly for an LF beginner (as I was at the time) not experienced with camera movements.
- Large focusing knobs, separate controls for rise and axis tilt.
- Very precise controls by wood camera standards. Extremely durable and well built, and a pleasure to simply gaze at and admire.

What I would change:
- Camera is heavy for a 4x5 (7+ pounds). I ended up buying a second, lesser-featured but lighter weight camera for long hikes.
- The universal bellows is remarkably flexible, but because the U2 bellows is so long, I found that even moderate wide angle lenses could become bellows limited when significant movements were applied. For example, if I wanted to apply a significant amount of front rise with my SS110XL (as with many architectural shots, shooting from the bottom of canyons, etc.), I found that I needed a bag bellows. The WA lens discussion on the Ebony website (http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/wa.lenses.SV.html) is for the SV45Ti (which has a shorter bellows than the U2); wide-angle movements with the U2 universal bellows will be more limited.
- My SS80XL lens could barely focus at infinity without resort to a recessed lensboard or the Ebony "wide angle configuration." Shorter lenses were not so fortunate. Also, when the standards are positioned closely together (as when using a wide angle lens), the front standard rails (which are extremely long due to the long extension capability of the camera) protrude significantly out the back of the camera, where they can become a bit of a nuisance when focusing under the darkcloth. This is not a good camera for frequent wide angle shooting.
- When both standards are fully racked out (as when shooting with the 600C), I found that both standards required supplementary support (either a monopod, long-lens support arm or tripod) to consistently ensure sharp photographs.
- What I eventually found with 4x5 long lens photography was that, with distant subjects, atmospheric effects such as haze, heat convection, etc., frequently conspired to unacceptably soften many of my long lens photographs. I subsequently decided that, for me, 8x10 was a better format for such situations. Of course YMMV.

How is folding, carrying
- Camera is very compact when folded, and easy to stowe/carry.
- I found that, for me, constantly unfolding/folding the camera was a bit of a pain. I eventually migrated to an Ebony non-folder (45SU) and finally to an Arca monorail (see discussion below).

If you could trade it for what you paid, what would you get
At various times I have owned a Ebony SV45U2, RSW45, 45SU, and SV810U. Ultimately I sold nearly all of the them (I still have the lightweight RSW) and bought an Arca Swiss F-Line Classic monorail. The main reasons I prefer the Arca to the Ebonies:
- I shoot mostly 8x10 these days, resorting to 4x5 only when I have to. A single Arca can convert to either format.
- I find setup/teardown time of the Arca to be comparable to that of the 45SU, and faster than the Ebony folders.
- The metal Arca is more rigid and typically does not require supplementary stabilization when shooting long lenses, except when there is a noticeable breeze or when using really long lenses (such as my 800+mm telephotos). If needed, it is easy to directly connect a long lens support arm to the monorail, instead of pressing it against the underside of one of the Ebony standards (where it could slip off if the tripod shifts slightly).
- The standard Arca 8x10 bellows supports wide angle through 600mm (telephoto) lenses with full movements (no bag bellows needed), which these days comprises 80%+ of my shooting.

I am certainly not trying to discourage you from buying an Ebony, nor am I trying to sell you on Arca Swiss. The Ebonies are wonderful cameras, and I had many enjoyable experiences owning them. My primary feedback is, to the extent you can, carefully identify what lens focal lengths you will need, and let that play a determinant role in camera model selection. The long extension capability of the SV45U2 does not come for free; there are both financial costs and functional trade-offs involved in choosing it. Just be sure the benefits outweigh the costs.

Rick Russell
8-Jun-2009, 20:40
I love my SV45U2! I previously owned a SV45TE, but wanted the longer bellows and the assymetrical tilts. The trade-off was the additional weight.

I have grown very accustomed to the assymetrical tilt, and would find it hard to imagine not having it available. No doubt it weighs more than other wood field cameras, but the ability to make use of all of my lenses, up to the Fuji 450C has made it the camera for me. I also am enamored with the look and feel of the finish of the ebony macassar wood, as well as its overall solid feel. I have also adapted to the ergonomics of using my camera. The levels are also indispensable to me.

The changes I would make are three: on a few occasions in the past the rear knob for utilizing tilts have locked, and have taken a pair of pliers or a wrench to loosen. This has not occured in quite some time and I suspect operator error is to blame. The second change involves the teflon (?) guide in the rear assembly, which at times are not aligned with one another. Again perhaps operator error. Finally, the universal bellows, which work well much of the time, at times fold in such a manner that the lens vignettes (typically on my 150mm lens). If a pound less of weight would mean not having the Ebony wood, I wouldn't change to a different wood.

After sufficient practice, I have become very efficient in folding the camera. I suspect every camera has a specific method for folding it. Although it took a while to master, I am very methodical in the process and can fold the camera without thinking about it. My camera is placed in a Photobackpacker camera case for storage in my Photobackpacker.

The only 4x5 camera that I have even considered trading it for would be the Arca Swiss with the Orbix focus mechanism.

At this point, however, I am very happy with my camera, and feel seemingly at one with it. I cannot imagine a better camera for me.

Rick Russell

Steve Hamley
9-Jun-2009, 07:27
Rick,

The asymmetric cameras can exist in a configuration where the rear standard rails are not in alignment, yet it still sort of works. The fix is to raise the rear standard to full rise and work with it a little to get everything aligned. I bought a used SV810U that was like that and wondered if that was why the owner was selling it. I've had my 4x5 that way too when articulating the rear standard. It's a 30-second fix. But yes it's operator error and I've done it too.

Cheers, Steve

Rick Russell
9-Jun-2009, 10:44
Steve,

Fortunately through trial and error I have figured out the fix. Thanks for the heads-up!

Rick Russell

Eric James
9-Jun-2009, 12:59
I had never experienced this problem with my SV45U2. This is surprising considering my otherwise broad and in-depth repertoire of operator error.

The latch on my SV45U2 was, like Steve's, a bit "floppy". The latch on my RW45E is a tad "tight". I suspect these sample differences arise from the cameras' handmade origins. On at least one occasion I had the SV45U2 flop open when I picked it up by the handle - this was a little unsettling.

Your recent threads suggest that you are having some difficulty deciding between the 45SU and the SV45U2 - based on your responses here, you are probably even more confused. I feel your pain: I have considered going back to asymmetric rear tilt for the past couple years and I'm always teetering on the same decision. For me it comes down to the simple question: "Would I rather shoot wide or long?" I miss the ability to use a 450mm lens, and I've missed out on some great compositions. My widest lens is 90mm and I've never found myself wanting to go much wider.

In one of your previous threads I commented on the packability of the 45SU - this was a concern of mine when I considered buying Jack F's 45SU - he confirmed that it would likely need more protection than I have given my SV45U2 or my RW45E. I carry my RW45E in a Lowe Pro Omni Trekker Sport placed in the bottom of a top-loading backpack. I wouldn't carry a 45SU like this, but I can certainly imagine many ways to carry the 45SU afield without worrying about damage.

Sal Santamaura
9-Jun-2009, 13:58
...On at least one occasion I had the SV45U2 flop open when I picked it up by the handle - this was a little unsettling...You mean Ebony owners are relying only on that latch? I lock down the rear standard tilt locks on both sides of my SV57 and SV Wholeplate after closing/latching and before removing from the tripod.

Drew Wiley
9-Jun-2009, 16:03
I fold up the Ebony with the latch, locked knobs, AND a big rubber band around the
whole camera. There were often instances when things would get bounced around,
like on a 4-wheel approach to a trailhead, where the camera would attempt to open
up as I pulled it out of the pack. Rubber bands are a cheap form of insurance.

Steve Hamley
9-Jun-2009, 17:19
Sal and Drew,

Yep. it's the latch that isn't. But a 'dorff style latch would work. I've thought of making one, it shouldn't be that hard but it isn't high on my priority list right now. But you could sell as many as there are Ebony cameras. Hmmmm.

Cheers, Steve

Sal Santamaura
10-Jun-2009, 07:38
...you could sell as many as there are Ebony cameras...When evaluating your potential market, be sure to subtract my two Ebony cameras from the total. Tightening those tilt locks is simply a part of my routine; I'd not be interested in a different latch.

This isn't unique to Ebony. My Wista VX latch is much more positive than Ebony's, but can still be accidentally dislodged, so I always tighten the base locks on that camera too.

cjbroadbent
10-Jun-2009, 08:33
I swapped my SV45TE for an SW45 and have been happier ever since.
- Less knobs.
- Setup is faster than my Hasselblad.
- It packs in a computer bag, lens-on, with hood and filter, plus readyLoads (r.i.p) .
- It is rigid, true square on - at last.

Maybe you will find you didn't need the extra stuff on your SV45U2. Your fingers hurt from tightening and un-tightening the fore-end. The horizon is straight at the bottom but not at the top. You are taking too long open it up, to unbox, uncap, and fit lens, the hood, the filter. It weighs a ton. Maybe you should try the SW.

Rakesh Malik
10-Jun-2009, 11:44
I have an SV45U, and the only thing that I would like to change about it to be honest is its weight. I'm thinking of getting a Toho Shimo for that reason alone.

I use lenses from an 80mm Super Symmar XL to a 720 mm T*ED on it, and it's been fine. It's movements and stability have been more than sufficient for my needs, which is to say, my images have all been sharp as long as the ground underneath the tripod was firm enough :)

Peter De Smidt
11-Jun-2009, 17:07
Rakesh,

An Ebony and a Toho are operationally quite different, and an Ebony has significantly better fit and finish. I've used both, and I much prefer the operational aspects of an Ebony. It's not that the Toho is a bad camera, just make sure to try one out before taking the plunge. That said walking to the shooting location with a camera as light as the Toho is a real joy.

Rakesh Malik
11-Jun-2009, 19:36
Rakesh,
An Ebony and a Toho are operationally quite different, and an Ebony has significantly better fit and finish. I've used both, and I much prefer the operational aspects of an Ebony. It's not that the Toho is a bad camera, just make sure to try one out before taking the plunge. That said walking to the shooting location with a camera as light as the Toho is a real joy.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that. I wonder if there's anyone here in Seattle with one of those Toho Shimos... (hint hint ;))

I do wish that the Ebony cameras were lighter, but other than that I love the camera.

Archphoto
12-Jun-2009, 03:00
Yeah, I've been thinking about that. I wonder if there's anyone here in Seattle with one of those Toho Shimos... (hint hint ;))

I do wish that the Ebony cameras were lighter, but other than that I love the camera.

Why don't you start a new thread and just ASK if there is somebody in Seattle that is willing toi spend a day with his Toho with you ?

Friendly people out here !

Good luck,

Peter

Rakesh Malik
12-Jun-2009, 08:31
Why don't you start a new thread and just ASK if there is somebody in Seattle that is willing toi spend a day with his Toho with you ?


That's a good idea... and I will do that shortly... it's something I've been meaning to do, and just managed to keep forgetting to do :)