Do I really need cable releases?

[Darin Boville]

Maybe a dumb question, maybe not.

I'm playing around with my new 4x5 kit (almost there!) and I noticed that the shutter release levers on my lenses (newer style Copal) are so extremely sensitive. Combine that with my ponderings about whether I want to buy more cable releases (one for each lens) or just use the one I have (and share it)--mixed also with my astonishment at the price of the Ebony releases that many seem to own--and I have to ask...

Do we really need cable releases? It seems I can trigger the shutter with just a butterfly touch on the shutter. Not good for time critical images but it sure would be nice not to carry them around.

Anyone ever do any actual tests on this?

--Darin

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes, you want a cable release, but you certainly don't need to buy an Ebony one. Just a second... My favorite have a red and black woven sleave, a disk lock, and are about 18" long. On the disk it says "Mimette Japan". They're nice and flexible, and they cost about $15. I bought mine from www.badgergraphic.com, but I'm sure they're available elsewhere.

[Gem Singer]

Triggering a copal shutter without a cable release would probably work okay at higher shutter speeds. Minimal danger of extraneous vibration.

However, at the slower 1/2,1/4, 1/8 second shutter speeds that are normally used for LF exposures, I'm guessing that some vibratory movement would show up.

One high quality cable release used interchangeably for all of your shutters should do the job. You might need a small flexible extension for shutters mounted in recessed lens boards. Those can remain in place all the time. Just attach the main cable release to the extension.

[Mark Sampson]

Tripping the shutter by hand will give you blurry images, just not the fashionable soft-focus lens kind. ;-)

[IanG]

Yes

[Oren Grad]

Yes, you want a cable release.

I use generic black-cloth-covered cable releases that cost anywhere from $7 to $10, depending on the length. If you're strapped for cash, getting one of these will cost you next to nothing. If you have a bit more to spend, these are cheap enough to buy a bunch and dedicate one to each lens or camera.

[Darin Boville]

I hear you...but still, I wonder.

Later on this weekend I'll do a little test--use my longest lens on a close subject to maximize vibration potential.

Any guesses at which shutter speed offers the best (worst) opportunity for vibration? Clearly high and very long are no good. Maybe 1/2 second?

--Darin

[Bob Salomon]

I hear you...but still, I wonder.

Later on this weekend I'll do a little test--use my longest lens on a close subject to maximize vibration potential.

Any guesses at which shutter speed offers the best (worst) opportunity for vibration? Clearly high and very long are no good. Maybe 1/2 second?

--Darin

Darin,

All mechanical shutters have vibration, you really want to ensure the least possible vibration by eliminating hands-on contact at the point of making the exposure. Furthermore, large format is expensive to own and operate. A quality cable release, long enough not to add vibration, cost less then a few sheets of film. And not using one will cost film and processing.

The release is just plain cheap insurance. Why do you think everyone here uses them?

[Speed Graphic]

I shoot with a Speed Graphic, and use it hand-held when photographing with my 127 Kodak Ektar. This is especially easy for scenics when you can shoot at 1/100 of a sec. at f/16-22 with an orange filter and B&W 400 speed film. The resulting negatives are gorgeous. No need for a cable release, as the Ektar has a generous shutter release lever on the lens, and the weight of the camera makes it easy to be adequately steady. Give this a try for pictorial work, if your lens is so equipped.

[Jiri Vasina]

From my personal experience, yes you need a cable release. For some time I have used Ilex Paragon 165mm in ACME shutter without a cable release, and quite a lot of the shots, especially the ones with times 1/15s-1s are blurred because of motion induced by triggering the shutter. (if you only use times 1/60s and faster, you might go without one...)

So yes, it's very wise to have a cable release.

Jiri

[walter23]

Maybe a dumb question, maybe not.

I'm playing around with my new 4x5 kit (almost there!) and I noticed that the shutter release levers on my lenses (newer style Copal) are so extremely sensitive. Combine that with my ponderings about whether I want to buy more cable releases (one for each lens) or just use the one I have (and share it)--mixed also with my astonishment at the price of the Ebony releases that many seem to own--and I have to ask...

Do we really need cable releases? It seems I can trigger the shutter with just a butterfly touch on the shutter. Not good for time critical images but it sure would be nice not to carry them around.

Anyone ever do any actual tests on this?

--Darin

If you have any stores in your area that specialize in old equipment you can buy releases for like $5 to $10 a piece. All you need is one that locks (assuming you may want to use bulb exposures).

A cable release, for me, is most useful for shots in the 1 to 5 second eposure range on bulb. Longer you can get away with just opening the preview lever or using the "T" function if your shutter has it (or a darkslide over the lens), shorter can be handled by the shutter (though vibrations will be an issue from ~1/30th to 1 second if you hammer on the shutter lever by hand instead of using a release).

[ki6mf]

if you shoot a wide angle with recessed lens board its hard to trip the shutter with your hand. With a cable release you can watch the subject to trip the shutter when you want, like when the wind lets up. Also you ofter hold a dark slide as a lens cap to shade the lens and need a cable release to pull this off.

[Ron Marshall]

My solution is $10 extensions on all of my lenses, to which I attach a good quality release. That way it is easy and quick to attach and I won't damage the threads on the shutter. (I carry a spare release in the field)

[Ron Bose]

I have two Ebony cable releases ... the long one and the short one.
Each gets used when the occasion dictates.

I don't have one per lens. I attache the cable release to the lens as part of my set up routine.

[Darin Boville]

The release is just plain cheap insurance. Why do you think everyone here uses them?

I guess I'm guilty of not making myself entirely clear.

I shot primarily medium format from 1983 to te early 1990's, then both medium format and 4x5 for five years or so starting around 1996. I used a cable release all the time for all the obvious reasons. But there were a few times that I didn't and I never notices a problem--which sort of stuck in my memory.

Now I'm getting back ino 4x5 and I'm thinking about these very basic issues again.

And so, when I noticed how delicately balanced and sensitive the shutters are on the newer Copals (much more sensitive than on my older chrome-ringed Copal) it occurred to me that, though I've heard all my life about the need for cable releases, I'd never actually seen anyone put it to the test. Certainly not with the sensitive shutters.

So that's where I'm coming from. Don't want to make people mad. I'm just curious to see the evidence for this--I'll run my own test later on out of curiosity and will share the results if there is interest.

--Darin

[Louie Powell]

I know that there are some people doing LF work with a hand-held camera (http://www.flickr.com/photos/josemarcophotography/3587698677), but my experience is that many of my exposures are more than one second long, so I can't rely on the shutter itself to determine the exposure time. I would never attempt to do a T exposure without a cable release, and I would be reluctant to do an exposure longer than perhaps 1/16 second that way.

[Brian Ellis]

You don't need to use a cable release all the time, just use it for the photographs that you want to be sharp.

[Nathan Potter]

You'll find it difficult to do a definitive test of vibration due to using or not using a cable release. There will be too many other vibration causing variables to allow you to decouple the image results from those other gotchas. At the extreme, with everything locked down and completely immobile you'll be able to actuate the shutter without a cable release and clearly produce a sharp image within the capability of the lens. But in real life such is not the case, so view the cable release as a bit of insurance and help along the way to achieving decently sharp images. But you'll find it just as worthwhile to focus on the other vibration causing elements described elsewhere here especially tripod stability and front to rear standard differential vibration.

Along the way don't forget to take some fun real images. :) :)

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Allen in Montreal]

......

Do we really need cable releases? It seems I can trigger the shutter with just a butterfly touch on the shutter............

Anyone ever do any actual tests on this?

--Darin

Yes, I have tested it, by accident.
Lost a cable release while climbing a very steep slope with the camera over my shoulder, of the 6 1 second exposures made with a "butterfly touch" 5 were scrap. They just were not that sharp. Not total dud soft, but sharp either, they went straight to the waste basket.

[David Karp]

Spend free time loading film holders.

Carry a 4x5 around to wherever your subject is located.

Lug the film holders and tripod there too.

Unpack all the paraphernalia, set up for the shot.

Pack it all up, take it back home, unload the holders, and develop the film. Then scan or get to work in the darkroom.

Lots of work.

The assumption is you want the highest quality negatives. Why even take the slightest chance that your finger will cause vibration? All for the savings in a few bucks for a few cable releases?

BTW, I like Ron Marshall's method the best. I have a few of these flexible extensions, and plan to buy more of them.

[walter23]

I shoot with a Speed Graphic, and use it hand-held when photographing with my 127 Kodak Ektar. This is especially easy for scenics when you can shoot at 1/100 of a sec. at f/16-22 with an orange filter and B&W 400 speed film. The resulting negatives are gorgeous. No need for a cable release, as the Ektar has a generous shutter release lever on the lens, and the weight of the camera makes it easy to be adequately steady. Give this a try for pictorial work, if your lens is so equipped.

Actually, while you weren't referring to it, I've found I can hand hold my speed graphic at relatively low speeds with the rear curtain. I've done 1/60th with a wide angle lens without problems. Adequately sharp, which for me means sharp enough to not notice any problems at 8x10 or 11x14.

[Kevin Crisp]

It depends to a considerable extent on how solid your camera and tripod are. If for no other reason (and there is another obvious reason) I like to be looking at the scene when I trip the shutter, not making sure I get my finger just right for minimal vibration. (So as to avoid smeared birds in flight, planes, wind blown foliage, etc.) You can probably get away with it at higher speeds, but using a tripod I almost never shoot higher than 1/8th or 1/15th.

An inexpensive cable release is a pretty easy way to avoid a big problem. Depending on what you are shooting a couple spoiled shots pays for the release.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Gee whiz...a cable release only costs a few bucks. I've used my big fat fingers only when I forgot the cable. There is barely enough room to get in there, especially if you have a compendium lens shade or some other type of filter holder on the lens.

[Brian Vuillemenot]

There is one type of photograph that you don't need a cable release for- very long exposures in the 30 second plus range. The time of the vibration from tripping the shutter is so short compared to the whole exposure that it doesn't matter.

[Turner Reich]

Well lets see, no you don't need one, but yes you are going to need one sometime. An Ebony is the one to get but a simple cheap cloth covered one will be just as good. When your negatives come out blurrry by pressing the little lever on the Copal you'll know it was time to use one.:D

[Paul O]

Another important factor in using a cable release is that it allows you, once evrything is done and ready to go, to actually observe the scene/person you are photographing. If you're shooting outdoors you can watch for wind movement in grasses/trees, check for people/cars too! I think the cable release is the final step in the "slowing down" process of using large format cameras. I would find it strange to trip the shutter with my fingers as my attention would then be taken to making sure the (small) tab was pressed and I'd be looking at the lens and not the scene before me.

[D. Bryant]

Maybe a dumb question, maybe not.

Do we really need cable releases?
--Darin

Frankly I can't believe you are even asking this question.

Don Bryant

[Darin Boville]

Frankly I can't believe you are even asking this question.

Don Bryant

Hey Don,

I'm the kind of guy who likes to ask questions.

Sorry if it disturbs you. :)

--Darin

[Dave_B]

Some of us have learned how to use our tongues to trip the shutter. Fingers are pretty crude in comparison with the sense of touch and feel you can get with your tongue. It takes a few hundred shots to get it right but once you have it down, it works every time. You can get some funny looks sometimes but one must occasionally make sacrifices for art. The main challenge is keeping your nose out of the picture.
Good luck and have fun,
Dave B.

[EdWorkman]

Like they said- slow shutter speeds may/could/probly will be a problem.
The old rule is shutter speed= 1/focal length in mm, and if you are calm next speed slower- as testified above for Speeds, where the mirror is BIG- as in KA Lunk, but you have mass to resist vibration in a lot of 4x5s
And on a tripod, with sensitive levers, why not TRY IT?
So I do shoot handheld fixed focus box panorama, 203 optar at 1/200th and f22 to get 6x24 frames action.

I recommend reading Dr. Henry's "Controls in Black and White Processing".
He actually tested lots of photomyths that have been repeatedededededed, and found actual results. I found his tests on fixing and Tri X Pan development characteristics particularly interesting.
Free advice is worth every penny you spend on it- experience is priceless- and it might cost a coupla sheets of film.

[Roger Thoms]

I use a cable release, switch it from lens to lens and carry a spare.
Roger

[poco]

In my experience it's possible to make due without a release if you learn to trigger the shutter by "brushing through" the lever rather than actually pushing it in. But I agree with almost everyone else that it's just not worth it. After the second or third time that you re-take a shot to put down that nagging feeling you might have jarred the camera, you realize you've blown through the cost of a cheap release in extra film/development costs.

I still rebel by using a magnifying glass over a loupe, but I've caved on the cable release thing.

[Ash]

You need a cable release, I found that out from experience.
You don't need an expensive cable release, I found that out from budget.

[Juergen Sattler]

Hey Don,

I'm the kind of guy who likes to ask questions.

Sorry if it disturbs you. :)

--Darin

But this is like asking: Do I really need a darkcloth to assess focus on a view camera in blinding sun light without a shade over the ground glass. What's the big deal of buying a cable release for every lens you own and just leaving it on the lens when you store it away - easy, quick and simple. Large Format is not a cheap hobby and the cable releases are the least expensive item in your bag. I would not waste a milli-second worrying about this issue.

[boris]

i do photograf WITHOUT a cabel release for years without to worry. after reading the coments on this "silly" questions i wanted to be shure. i made 16 pictures 8 with a cable release and 8 without. 300mm lens in copal shutter, linhof technika, good tripod.
exposure times were 1/8 down to 1 second. i repeated each time twice. after examing the negativs under a 10x loupe i couldn't see NO difference at all :eek:
these are my facts. i would like to ask somebody else to make the same test and to report here,
cheers boris

[Darin Boville]

Thanks, Boris. Very interesting results.

And thanks to all who considered my question.

--Darin

[Jim Banks]

Another important factor in using a cable release is that it allows you, once evrything is done and ready to go, to actually observe the scene/person you are photographing. If you're shooting outdoors you can watch for wind movement in grasses/trees, check for people/cars too!

Potential technical issues aside, I think this is the most important reason to use one.

[Doug Dolde]

I am utterly amazed that this discussion could go on for 4 pages !

[boris]

sometimes i even photograph:) with ;)

[boris]

Potential technical issues aside, I think this is the most important reason to use one.

well that's what i do when triggering he shutter with my finger. i have some good argument's to do so.
in the beginning i was using a cable release, one day i forgot it, so just by mistake i recognized that the people that were portraid were less stressed, they expected to see the cable release. the portraits became more natural. since this "error" i changed my mind about right and wrong.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Having a cable release allows you to keep your eyes on the subject all the time.

[Frank Petronio]

you could use a rubber band to pull the lever ;-)

[Paul Kierstead]

There is barely enough room to get in there, especially if you have a compendium lens shade or some other type of filter holder on the lens.

I've done a lot of strobe work lately where there is definitely not a chance of movement blurring; probably could be kicking the tripod when you fired the strobes and get away with it. I figured I'd forgo the release and found exactly what you found; it is a PITA to get in there, particularly with a compendium shade (which I was using, makes a big diff if a strobe is bleeding over the lens...)

I don't see why you would *need* an Ebony release, though it might be nice I expect.

[Bob Salomon]

you could use a rubber band to pull the lever ;-)

That is a sure way to get vibration. A string tied around the lever would be less likely to vibrate but a cable release or air release is much easier, less likely to create vibration and a lot easier to attach!

[D. Bryant]

you could use a rubber band to pull the lever ;-)

Frank,

Since I like to do landscapes I was going to mention that one can use a twig to press the release lever. Works everytime and is more natural too! :)

Don Bryant

[D. Bryant]

I've done a lot of strobe work lately where there is definitely not a chance of movement blurring; probably could be kicking the tripod when you fired the strobes and get away with it. I figured I'd forgo the release and found exactly what you found; it is a PITA to get in there, particularly with a compendium shade (which I was using, makes a big diff if a strobe is bleeding over the lens...)

I don't see why you would *need* an Ebony release, though it might be nice I expect.


I hope Darin and Boris are reading this, I still don't understand why this is a serious discussion.

Don Bryant

[Darin Boville]

I hope Darin and Boris are reading this, I still don't understand why this is a serious discussion.

Don Bryant

Oh, I'm still reading. This thread is insightful in more ways than one. :)

--Darin

[D. Bryant]

This thread is insightful in more ways than one. :)

--Darin

Yeah it certainly is Darin. :D

Don Bryant