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dh003i
1-Jun-2009, 22:23
Hi all,

I'm looking for a good tripod for both my LF and DSLR. I currently have a Bogen 055XPROB, which has a center column. For the most part, I HATE the center column. It prevents the tripod head from getting to the ground, and the only way to get the DSLR really low is to hang it upside down via the center column, or flip the column on the horizontal plane (so it is sideways). This is "ok" for DSLR's (but still not ideal), and seems like disaster for LF.

I also have an 50-year old Linhof tripod that I bought online; that purchase was a mistake. It is rugged when the legs are collapsed, but wobbly when they're extended. It's also a PITA. (my mistake not listening to others who warned me against it).

Re my Bogen 055XPROB, the center column has been useful sometimes, for weird angle shots on hills or whatnot, but is usually just a pain when I want to get low.

So I'm considering two options: (a) Buy a "short" center column, almost 7" long, which means he camera is about 11" off he ground optimistically; (b) Get a tripod without a center column.

I lean towards (b). I never use he center column for precise adjustments of height, as I worry about it's stability. I'm considering the Berlebach 4002 wooden tripod (2in to 64 in height). 64" translates to 5.33 ft. I notice that the Manfrotto 055XPROB specs say max height without center column up is 4.66 ft. This seems wrong to me. With the legs at the narrowest angle, and extended all the way, the max height is at eye-level for me or higher (that's 5.5 or more feet). Do they specify "maximum height" at something other than the narrowest lockable position?

Also, what do you guys recommend for a 3-way pan-tilt head that will work with both my LF (4x5, heaviest lens is Nikkor 90/4.5) and DSLR (Oly E3 + heaviest lens 70-300/4.5-5.6).

John Kasaian
1-Jun-2009, 22:27
The center column on my old tiltall can be reversed (the camera then can be suspended upside down, underneath the tripod in order to get ground level. It handles a GraphicView II nicely :) I think I paid about $70 for mine used.

Peter De Smidt
1-Jun-2009, 23:13
You might try looking at the Feisol tripods at www.Reallybigcameras.com . The proprietor, Kerry Thalmann, is a very experience large format photographer, and he is a member of this forum. I haven't bought a tripod from him, but I did buy a feisol rotator from him. The quality was very good, the price was fair, and Kerry's service was first rate.

Archphoto
2-Jun-2009, 04:42
2 Things: for the 055 you can buy a Low Angle Adaptor from Manfrotto: you take out the center coloumn and replace it with the LAA: it gets you as low as you want. Cost: € 7,-
I have one and it realy works !

For the head: try the 410 geared head, together with the 055 it is a great combination.
I use this setup for my Olympus E520 + 7-14mm, RB 67 upto my Shen Hao 4x5".

Peter

dh003i
2-Jun-2009, 06:56
John,

Yea, my centercolumn can be reversed and hung upside down too. That worries me even with my Olympus E-3 DSLR, nevermind a 4x5 monorail! (and it is also a PITA).

Then again, that's with a Bogen 3030 pan/tilt tripod head with a QR plate.

Peter,

Thanks for the suggestion of the Feisol tripods. However, all of them say, "The specification and dimension of our leg tubes are very precise that, when extending out or pushing in leg tubes, air can form an airtight chamber inside the leg tubes and make it hard to push in or pull out. Therefore, when extending or collapsing leg tubes, it will take a few seconds to counter air resistance." IOW, slow setup.

Archophoto,

Thanks for the low angle adapter suggestion. Re the 410 geared head, does that allow for free-flow composition also, like a ball-head? My Bogen 3030 allows all of the locks to be semi-disengaged, so I can freely position the camera along all axis. For quick shots of fast-moving things, I don't even need to lock the axis, because the positional support given is enough.

dh003i
2-Jun-2009, 07:37
Also, what about these tripod 3-way heads:

Bogen 3039 (or then Bogen 229), with QR plate:
http://www.adorama.com/BG3039.html

Bogen 3057
http://www.h1photo.com/3057.html

What's the deal with all of these "rapid connect mounting plates" for the 3057?
http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=3057

Also, for these tripod heads, the screw that connects the head to the camera, it would be nice if so for the 3039 hexagonal mounting plate, I could get one with 1/4 and 3/8 in screws. I currently use a 3/8" knob to mount my 4x5 to the 50-year old Linhof tripod. I like this better, seems more sturdy.

Although the heads are rated for 20+ lbs of weight, are there any problems with the QR plates?

Any heavy-duty 3-way pan/tilt heads that don't use the QR system, but something that's at least as quick to setup as the 3/8" knob I use to screw into 4x5 through my old tripod?

Archphoto
2-Jun-2009, 08:22
Regarding the 410: on each axis you have a knob that you can turn to free the fine adjustment of that axis, works realy fast and great. After that you fine adjust that axis.

Mind you: you don't lock any of the axis, they stay in place and fine adjustable, even with a heavy camera mounted like the RB67.

The connection with the tripod is 3/8, for the cameraplate you get both the 1/4 and the 3/8, one of them can be stored on the head when not used.
The camera plate has a safety lock with the head.

Peter

dh003i
2-Jun-2009, 08:28
I wonder if the 410's 10 lbs of support will be enough to sturdily hold my Linhof 4x5...

My Bogen 3030 is rated at 13.3 lbs, and I don't have extreme confidence mounting my LF on that. An Amazon.com reviewer said he'd be worried about putting a LF on the 405, despite being rated for 7.5 kg (~15 lbs), and that it is a fragile head. Same re the 410 here: http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/004Ciy

I'm worried about the thing breaking, then me having to spend as much as the initial cost to get it fixed.

Archphoto
2-Jun-2009, 08:38
It depends on the Linhof you have: a Master Technika would be no problem at all on the 410, my Sinar P2 4x5" I will test on it when I am back in Holland in July.

For my Sinar P2 4x5" and 8x10" I use a Gitzo Studex Performance (30 years old) with the heaviest 3 way head Linhof ever made.
There is on the Gear-section of this forum a thread about the 410, together with a photo of the 410 next to a Rolleiflex 2.8F : nothing "Junior" about the head.

If you want to go heavier you can have a look at the Manfrotto 405 geared head.

Peter

timparkin
2-Jun-2009, 09:01
I wonder if the 410's 10 lbs of support will be enough to sturdily hold my Linhof 4x5...

My Bogen 3030 is rated at 13.3 lbs, and I don't have extreme confidence mounting my LF on that. An Amazon.com reviewer said he'd be worried about putting a LF on the 405, despite being rated for 7.5 kg (~15 lbs), and that it is a fragile head. Same re the 410 here: http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/004Ciy

I'm worried about the thing breaking, then me having to spend as much as the initial cost to get it fixed.

I beleive David Ward has a Linhof Technikardan that he uses with little trouble on a 410/Gitzo Combo..

Tim

dh003i
2-Jun-2009, 09:31
Thanks, it does look impressive. I'm puzzled why it has a lower rated load than my Bogen 3030. It looks like it would support more weight than the 3030.

Anyways, do you guys think that the advantages of it are worth the extra cost vs. the 3039 or 3057?

PS: Wow, I note that the 3039 and 3057 are 4.2-4.5 lbs, even heavier than the 2.7 lbs of the 410.

Tim k
2-Jun-2009, 17:13
You might try looking at the Feisol tripods at www.Reallybigcameras.com . The proprietor, Kerry Thalmann, is a very experience large format photographer, and he is a member of this forum. I haven't bought a tripod from him, but I did buy a feisol rotator from him. The quality was very good, the price was fair, and Kerry's service was first rate.

I will second that.
I just ordered a tripod from Kerry as well. He went way out of his way to meet my needs. I ordered one of his big ones, quite stable, not heavy at all. And half the price of the Gitzo I was looking at.

Peter De Smidt
2-Jun-2009, 18:16
I have a couple tripods and light stands where you can feel some air resistance when you quickly expand or shorten one the sections. (With light stands, this is called "air-cushioned.") The amount of time it adds to working with the equipment is on the order of a fraction of a second. In other words, it's no hindrance to using the equipment at all. It's also a safety feature, such that if the lock isn't tight, the section will slowly compress under weight, which usually gives one plenty of time to fix it. Admittedly, that's more of an issue with light stands then with tripods.

Alan Davenport
3-Jun-2009, 07:31
I'm looking for a good tripod for both my LF and DSLR. I currently have a Bogen 055XPROB, which has a center column. ...the only way to get ... really low is to hang it upside down via the center column, or flip the column on the horizontal plane (so it is sideways). This ... seems like disaster for LF.

Not necessarily a disaster. It is a wee mite vibration-prone but manageable if the wind isn't a factor. My tripod is a 3401, a short-lived descendand of the 3021. It came with two columns, the full length one and and a short stubby one. I mount my Calumet monorail sideways when I need to get really low.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/407387514_58f4153940_o.jpg

It works OK.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/407369738_3786776c26.jpg



Also, what do you guys recommend for a 3-way pan-tilt head that will work with both my LF (4x5, heaviest lens is Nikkor 90/4.5) and DSLR (Oly E3 + heaviest lens 70-300/4.5-5.6).

I've got the 3030 head (see photo above) which is adequate for my 4x5 cameras, a bit shaky with 600mm on the 35mm camera. The 3047 would be a better choice.

BrianShaw
3-Jun-2009, 07:48
I mount my Calumet monorail sideways when I need to get really low.

Have you ever thought about (or tried) hanging the camera from the bottom of the post (or reversing the post) and shooting between the legs? My tripods seem to be able to reverse the post or have a screw on the bottom of the post from which a head could easily be attached. I've been thinking this might be more stable than mounting the camera sideways.

EDIT: Ooops... read your post befroe reading dh003i's. Well, all I can say is I don't think hanging the camera upside down is any more risky than hanging it sideways!

dh003i
3-Jun-2009, 15:32
Alan,

Thanks for your comment, your picture is very nice. I guess it comes down to personal preference. For me, I feel confident using the 3030 head with my Olympus E-3, but even there am nervous hanging it upside down. I just don't like the slight give & take of that tiny little plate.

If I was going with a QR system, I'd really want a beefier plate with better grips; or a screw-lock system; what about the heads below (all with screw-lock):

Davis & Sanford V2 Vernier Head - Supports 40.00 lb (18.14 kg), weights 5 lbs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/169289-REG/Davis_Sanford_V2_V2_Vernier_Head.html#specifications)
8x support:weight

Davis & Sanford SH200 Pro 200 Photo Pan/Tilt Head - Supports 35.00 lb (15.88 kg), weighs 2.75 lbs (//http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/169285-REG/Davis_Sanford_SH200_Pro_200_Photo_Head.html#specifications)
12.7x support:weight

Davis & Sanford SH200S Pro 200S Photo Pan/Tilt Head - Supports 35.00 lb (15.88 kg), weighs 2.75 lbs
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/60015-REG/Davis_Sanford_SH200S_Pro_SH_200S_Photo_Head.html#specifications)
12.7x support:weight

Gitzo G-1570M Rationnelle Magnesium 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head - Supports 22.00 lb (9.98 kg), weighs 2.90 lbs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/170918-REG/Gitzo_G1570M_G1570_3_Way_Head.html#specifications)
7.6x support:weight

Velbon PH-275 Magnesium 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head, Large - Supports 18 lb, weighs 2.9 lbs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/378787-REG/Velbon_PH275_PH_275_Magnesium_3_Way_Panhead.html#specifications)
6.2x support:weight

Slik Professional 3-Way Panhead - Supports 22 lb (10 kg), weighs 4 lbs (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481849-REG/Slik_618_909_Professional_3_Way_Panhead.html#specifications)
5.5x support:weight

Peter De Smidt
3-Jun-2009, 16:24
You have to take a manufacturer's max weight rating with a grain of salt. There is no commonality as to the criteria that are being used.

Alan Davenport
3-Jun-2009, 22:32
I guess it comes down to personal preference. For me, I feel confident using the 3030 head with my Olympus E-3, but even there am nervous hanging it upside down. I just don't like the slight give & take of that tiny little plate.

(Thanks for the nice comment.) I'm sort of old school when it comes to these things. If I want to take a photo and my equipment isn't quite according to Hoyle, I'll see about making do with what I've got. A lot of equipment will do things we don't expect, and practically all equipment will do more than the manufacturer says it will.

I find the 3030 and its QR plates to be impressively robust. IMO the large hex QR plates of the 3047 offer more stability but not a great deal more raw strength. Certainly, if you approach the point of failure for the 3030, you'll also be past the comfort zone for the 3047. I've carried my monorail stuck on the 3030 and with the tripod slung over my shoulder. I'll admit I took the lens off when I did that.

I've never used the column inverted with the camera hanging inside the tripod legs. I'd just end up knocking the whole thing over when I tried to get in there to focus and adjust stuff.

dh003i
4-Jun-2009, 05:44
You have to take a manufacturer's max weight rating with a grain of salt. There is no commonality as to the criteria that are being used.

Thanks. I guess I just don't trust he QR systems as much in weird positions, or with heavier gear. I've also noticed that if you put the QR plate on he "wrong way" it wobbles a little bit.

I guess I'm veering towards the systems that use a screw in from the bottom, like the ones I linked to. Does Bogen have any non-QR 3-way pan/tilts?

Of the heads I listed, anyone have any suggestions on the last 3? The Gitzo, Velbon, and Slik? I like the low-profile nature of the Gitzo, and it's long handles look like they've offer more precision in positioning (due to leverage); it also looks like it has the best platform for support. However, the Velbon looks like it maybe has 2 bubble levels.

Herb Cunningham
4-Jun-2009, 07:45
I use the Arca plate and the non quick release, which requires you to tighten down the clamp on the plate-gives comfort leve.

Second the motion for Feisol-they are really good. I especially like the one with the swivel mount that allows you to get level really fast.

Peter De Smidt
4-Jun-2009, 08:56
Yeah, most quick releases suck. The ARCA system doesn't, though, but it is pricey. I have a Gitzo Rational Series 5 head, and I like it. The long handle does tend to catch on vegetation if you're walking through brush. It's much better in this regard, than my old Bogen pan-tilt head.

Another option for shooting low is to use a clamp on the tripod leg to hold a head. Sinar used to make a clamp just for this purpose. You could also use a Super Clamp with a threaded stud. If I know I'm going to need the camera really low to the ground, I throw one in my bag. That also works for clamping the camera to a railing, ladder, or just about anything else, and they're not very expensive. The negative is that it's one more thing to carry around.

dh003i
4-Jun-2009, 14:37
I just got the Bogen 3039 tripod head for $103 on eBay including SH. I really liked the design and ability to use two screws for the Gitzo head I referred to earlier, but it's $240 at the cheapest I can find.

So I'll give the 3039 a try; people here seem to think highly of it; and it'll go well with my 4x5 and DSLR.

jvuokko
7-Nov-2009, 16:27
Not necessarily a disaster. It is a wee mite vibration-prone but manageable if the wind isn't a factor. My tripod is a 3401, a short-lived descendand of the 3021. It came with two columns, the full length one and and a short stubby one. I mount my Calumet monorail sideways when I need to get really low.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/407387514_58f4153940_o.jpg

It works OK.


Sorry about very late reply to this thread... I have similar tripod (manfrotto 055 PRO, I guess that it's same as 3021 PRO).

Under my 4x5 toyo monorail the center column is the problematic part. More precicely the top plate which is made from plastic! No matter how much I tighten, the column will always move as the top plate flexes.

I wonder if Calumet is much lighter? With 4x5 wooden field camera and (heavier) MF SLR the tripod is ok, but monorail is just too much.

Here's couple of example videos that demonstrates how the tripod flexes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrTtOjIqr4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4bgYEGsZw

Althought it might seem that the head flexes, it's actually the top plate. My heavier ball head have more problems with that tripod.

Now I am 90% going to Berlebach.