film in general

[Steve M Hostetter]

Hello folks,,, I plan on tray processing b&w film ... What I'd like to know is what films are safe using a safelight..?

thank you

[Gary Beasley]

Only the ortho and blue sensitive only type films. Blue only is a rare bird and nowadays is usually handmade emulsion. Most modern films are thoroughly panchromatic and need complete darkeness.
At one time a chemical called pinacryptal was available that would desensitise the film and allow you to process normal pan film under a safelight. This stuff is hard to find nowadays, I wish I could get my hands on some to play with.
There is a technique where you view the film very briefly under a very dim green safelight to check the progress as thats the color the film is usually the least sensitive to and being in the developer tends to kill some of the sensitivity.
You can do a search of the forums for discussions on this subject for more details.

[Greg Blank]

Chickens like well lit "Darkrooms" ;)



Hello folks,,, I plan on tray processing b&w film ... What I'd like to know is what films are safe using a safelight..?

thank you

[Gem Singer]

Look up "Development by Inspection".

[John Kasaian]

Like most LF photography, tray development sounds more difficult than it is. Practice by loading some 4x5 pieces of plastic cut from a report cover (you will have to unload your film holders in the dark some day as well) trays filled with water and a audible timer you can set by feel (or just shoot some ortho) Once you get the feel for it, doing it in the dark will be a piece of cake.

Doing stuff by feel is good practice for when you develop cataracts, too (viva old age!)

[csant]

I was a bit reluctant initially to tray development of film sheets. So as long as I did 4x5 I just used day tanks. But then the 5x7 didn't fit anymore, I couldn't get hold of a day tank - so decided to give tray development a try. And it really works fine, not any more complicated than tank agitation… The only thing you need to learn is to place the sheets with a gentle swiping motion on top of each other when agitating - the emulsion is soft and very easily scratches ;)

[Doremus Scudder]

Steve,

Normally, panchromatic films (i.e., 95% of films used these days) are tray developed in total darkness. You can practice with a few scrap sheets with the light on, but when it comes to the real thing, you need "lights out" from before unloading film from the holders until after the sheets have been agitated in the fixer for at least half the fixing time (I don't turn on the lights till fixing is almost complete).

Ortho film can be handled under a dim red safelight during the entire processing sequence, but if the lights are too bright, fogging is a definite risk. Development by inspection requires you do everything in total darkness except for a few seconds toward the end of developing when you check the density of the negative using a very dim dark green safelight. DBI is an art that few practice these days. Most use specific times at a standard temperature for expansions and contractions.

There are daylight tanks, tubes, etc. that allow one to load the film in the dark and then process with the lights on. However, tray developing in total darkness is not difficult, it just takes a little practice. I tray develop for a number of reasons; flexibility, ease of set up, expense of equipment, etc. and prefer it to other methods.

There is a lot of info here and elsewhere (e.g. APUG and photo.net) on tray developing. I've detailed my methods here or on one of the other forums. A search on my name should turn it up if you are interested.

Good luck and have fun,

Doremus Scudder

[Bruce Barlow]

It took a beautiful coed about ten minutes to master tray processing in my darkroom. Now she prefers it to tanks, etc.

Be a sport and sacrifice three or four sheets of film and practice in the light eyes open, then eyes closed, then with lights off. You'll have the hang of it in no time.

The first three times you develop, it will be nerve-wracking but successful.

[Sevo]

At one time a chemical called pinacryptal was available that would desensitise the film and allow you to process normal pan film under a safelight. This stuff is hard to find nowadays, I wish I could get my hands on some to play with.

Pinacryptol green - which is supposed to turn pan into ortho film. But any time I used it with enough safelight to be able to interpret the developing image, I had noticeable fogging and streaking. It may have been safe with film < ISO 50, but on modern film, it does not provide enough protection for visual tray development - at the very best you could perhaps use it to guard the film against some absolutely minimal orientation light.

Sevo

[Gary Beasley]

Thanks for the update Sevo. I've also heard that pyro developers have a desensitizing effect too, which makes them a good choice for the inspection methods with the green safelight.

[Brian Ellis]

I tray processed 8x10 film for a while until I was able to find what for me was an infinitely better method (BTZS tubes). I agree that it wasn't difficult, just a royal PITA to stand over trays of chemicals in total darkness, shuffling sheets by hand and inhaling chemical fumes. I could do four sheets at a time so if I had say 20 sheets to process I got to do that for about an hour. Mmmmm. Fun.

[CG]

Pinacryptol green - which is supposed to turn pan into ortho film. But any time I used it with enough safelight to be able to interpret the developing image, I had noticeable fogging and streaking. It may have been safe with film < ISO 50, but on modern film, it does not provide enough protection for visual tray development - at the very best you could perhaps use it to guard the film against some absolutely minimal orientation light. Sevo

Desensitization is not complete - desensitizer just reduces the sensitivity. Use the safelight only at or near the end of the process or, yes, you can get fog.

Pinacryptol green does not if I recall correctly turn pan into ortho, but Pinacryptol green does make DBI more effective. However, be careful; TMax films are evidently not suitable for desensitization. I do not know why.

[William McEwen]

Let me join in here -- it's really pretty easy. Like anything, it just takes practice. Yes, by all means, sacrifice a few unexposed sheets and try it with the lights on.

I always first unload my holders on the dry side and place the sheets of film crossways in a film box. That way I'm starting at the wet side with a stack of film and I no longer have to play with the holders.

I don't start with developer -- my first tray is distilled water. I put the sheets in one by one, making sure each is fully saturated and none are sticking together. One good pass through the stack tells me I'm ready to put them in developer.

Emulsion side is always up.

It's not that difficult. Sure, you're working in the dark, but everything is directly in front of you.

And it's always a magic moment when you turn on the lights and have these marvels floating in a tray in front of you!

[MIke Sherck]

At the risk of sounding retarded, has anyone tried the infra-red viewer (briefly) reviewed in the last View Camera? (I think it was there. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.)

Mike

[William McEwen]

At the risk of sounding retarded, has anyone tried the infra-red viewer (briefly) reviewed in the last View Camera? (I think it was there. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.)

Mike


I think you're referring to sheet film development using "night goggles" article, which is in the current (March/April) issue of View Camera.

I didn't read it, but the concept makes sense.

[mrpengun]

It was my understanding that those night-vision goggles only work by amplifying available light; so if your darkroom is actually 100% dark, then shouldn't they not have any affect?

[aduncanson]

It was my understanding that those night-vision goggles only work by amplifying available light; so if your darkroom is actually 100% dark, then shouldn't they not have any affect?

The military uses Night Vision Goggles that amplify existing light and so would be of no use in a well sealed darkroom, but the View Camera review was actually of an InfraRed viewer and several folks here have been quite positive about them. Some even install IR illumination systems in their darkrooms.

[andy]

I try process a mix of tmax 400, HP5, and arista 200 with a kodak green safelight about ten feet away. It's certainly not necessary, but it makes life a little nicer. As far as I know, as long as you keep the light far enough away, it will not effect the film.