First Time in Utah

[nray]

Hi.

My wife and I are celebrating our 30th anniversary this September 23rd by taking Amtrak out to Salt Lake City and then renting a car. I have never been out west, my wife has. I am a novice LF shooter. (4x5)

I have been reading the current threads about shooting in Utah and after researching a little, feel overwhelmed at all that is available in that beautiful area. I was going to drive southeast toward Moab then Monument Valley and ending up at the Grand Canyon. We will be staying in hotels. Like I said, I feel overwhelmed and need a plan to shoot what I can in the course of around 7 days. It feels like it's going to be an overload of beauty to capture. I know I need to pick some spots. But, which ones? We also just want to enjoy the sights together. We will probably end up in Las Vegas to fly back home. So, I need a plan so I can feel relaxed and comfortable during the trip.

Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks guys.
Norm Ray

[PBrooks]

I'm not sure going from Salt Lake to Moab and then down and around to LV in 5 days is going to be relaxing. But if you are taking that route before you get to MV take a drive through the valley of the Gods. I would get the travel books, can't remember who by but I'm sure someone will suggest these books also. Have fun no matter what, you couldn't have picked a more beautiful scenic drive. My wife and I set out on what we thought was going to be a 2 week honeymoon in area, well we didn't make it home for a month and a half.
Good luck!

[John Jarosz]

Is there a reason you want to go to Salt Lake City?. The train is scheduled to get in at 11 PM and it will probably be late. You'd have to get a hotel in the middle of the night, and still not get much rest.

If you want to go to Moab, I would get off Amtrak at Grand Junction Colorado (at 4 in the afternoon). Plenty of rental cars and the drive to Moab is quite short. You could also get off at Green River, but that is the middle of nowhere and you may have difficulty finding a car.

From there you could pick up advice on destinations as I did in my recent thread:
Southeast Utah (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=48630)

John

[rdenney]

Five days is too short to try to see all of what there is. I would recommend seeing well what you can see in five days, and leaving the rest for a return trip. I've been to the Colorado Plateau at least a dozen times, and still haven't been everywhere by any means. Don't underestimate the scale of the place.

Moab provides many opportunities that minimize driving time from the nearest hotel. From Moab, you can easily visit Arches National Park, and the Island in the Sky district of Canyonlands National Park. If you include Dead Horse Point State Park and a drive through the La Sal Mountains, you've done five days easily and still not been lazy about it. Moab is close enough to Arches to follow my preferred plan, which is to go into the park at first light, spend several hours, come out and poke around town during the middle of the day, take a nap to get through the hottest part of the day, and then go back into the park for the late afternoon and sunset. The light is more photogenic early and late, and you'll avoid being parched in the middle of the day. Like all the parks in the area, there are no services once you get past the visitor center. Arches is relatively small by Utah standards, and it still takes an hour to drive from the gate to the far end of the park road.

And alternative is to spend the five days at Zion and Bryce, or at Bryce, Escalante, and Capitol Reef. Save the Grand Canyon for another trip--it's a long drive from Salt Lake City and that area deserves its own trip. Don't underestimate the distances out there. When I lived in Texas, the first (VERY LONG) day was driving from Austin, Dallas, or San Antonio to Albuquerque, which is already on the eastern edge of the Colorado Plateau. The second nearly as long day was driving from Albuquerque to Moab, with maybe a quick stop in Monument Valley or Canyon de Chelly. A trip from Moab to Capitol Reef is a half day of driving--the roads are not straight. Getting from Capitol Reef to Cedar Breaks on the western edge of the plateau takes another day.

My next recommendation is likely to be scorned by present company, but I'm going to say it anyway and then you decide for yourself: Don't take the large-format camera on the first trip, especially a trip of only five days. I have several reasons for recommending that. The first is that good photos from that area require advancing beyond mere awe and being able to really see what's there with time to sort out your response to it. Otherwise, it's just the same stuff you can buy in the gift shop postcard rack, except that those photos will have been made advantage of ideal light by locals who know when to be where. A visit to the Tom Till Gallery in Moab will reveal just how hard it is to break new ground in that area. Buy one of his prints.

My second reason is that on the first trip, you are becoming acquainted, and the pictures should be of the snapshot-at-a-family-reunion variety. I believe that using the large-format camera requires a deeper understanding. How frustrating would it be to spend a precious half a day on one subject, only to discover that the real photo was just around the next corner? If you compile a list of photos recommended by people on the Internet, you'll be seeing with their eyes rather than your own.

So, do the first trip with small or medium format, and use those pictures as a learning experience for the next trip. Your wife will appreciate it, too.

One thing I'm sure about: You will want to go back.

Rick "who hasn't been back in six years and that's TOO LONG" Denney

[John Kasaian]

Try the trout at the Road Creek Inn in Loa! :)

Aside from that, don't try to shoot every thing in Utah in a week---it is overwhealming and you'll be doomed from the outset.

My advice: plan to shoot one or two areas, shoot to your heart's content and then pack your 4x5 away and just enjoy scouting the rest of your trip (unless the serendipity factor kicks in!)

Q: Which areas? A: What is your fancy? Utah has landscapes ranging from the pastoral to natural phenomenon, plus archeological and historic sites. Even the lesser known attractions are fertile subjects that can yield great photographs if you do your part.

Have fun!

[nray]

Thanks for your responses.

John, great advice. I'm looking into maybe stopping in Green River. (The Grand Junction stop said I'd have to take a bus there for some reason??)

Rick, you also gave some great advice. That is exactly what I am feeling. I want it to be a relaxed trip with my wife, but worrying about getting great shots won't help that. I think what I will do is bring my camera along and take some shots but mostly shoot 35mm. That way we can absorb the beauty together and still plan to come back someday.

[nray]

Try the trout at the Road Creek Inn in Loa! :)

Aside from that, don't try to shoot every thing in Utah in a week---it is overwhealming and you'll be doomed from the outset.

My advice: plan to shoot one or two areas, shoot to your heart's content and then pack your 4x5 away and just enjoy scouting the rest of your trip (unless the serendipity factor kicks in!)

Q: Which areas? A: What is your fancy? Utah has landscapes ranging from the pastoral to natural phenomenon, plus archeological and historic sites. Even the lesser known attractions are fertile subjects that can yield great photographs if you do your part.

Have fun!

Yes....that sounds like a good plan. That's what I'm going to do. Thanks.

[John Jarosz]

(The Grand Junction stop said I'd have to take a bus there for some reason??)

Grand Junction is listed as a regular train stop. Maybe you were thinking of Glenwood Springs or Colorado Springs.

I haven't actually taken this route, but that's what the schedule says.

john

[nray]

Grand Junction is listed as a regular train stop. Maybe you were thinking of Glenwood Springs or Colorado Springs.

I haven't actually taken this route, but that's what the schedule says.

john

For some reason it won't stop on the date we want to go. It will stop there a few days later though. I thought that was kind of odd. I figured they made stops at all the stations along the way. Actually, I had all ready had made reservations a few days ago. Hoping now we can get off early.

[John Jarosz]

Norm:
At this point, I'd call Amtrak and talk to someone directly.
john

[venchka]

Rick Denney has been reading my mind again. Possibly very scary. Be careful Rick.

In summation: Stick to southern Utah. Try the North Rim of the Grand Canyon? The advice about Grand Junction is dead on target. Check it out. Going through Green
River twice seems like punishment to me.

Take the 4x5 camera. You may come upon the right scene at the right time. Don't fret if you don't use it.

Have fun! Bon Voyage! I'm totally envious.

Wayne

ps: Did you compare schedules going to Santa Fe or Albuquerque? The drive to Moab across New Mexico isn't nice.

[John Jarosz]

The North Rim is VERY nice is September. You might even get some snow. The screaming hordes should be gone from the South Rim by then, but I still like the North Rim better.

John

[venchka]

ps: Did you compare schedules going to Santa Fe or Albuquerque? The drive to Moab across New Mexico isn't nice.

Sorry for the typo. The drive across NW New Mexico is WONDERFUL!

The train doesn't actually stop in either Santa Fe or Albuquerque, but you shouldn't have any trouble getting to a car rental place from the train station.

[SW Rick]

I live in Grand Junction and, as far as I know, the train stops here every day. You are far better off to stop here and rent a car, drive about 1.5 hours to Moab (take Hwy 128 off I70 for scenic route to Moab). Green River has nowhere near the facilities, and in Grand Junction you have options for car rentals, etc. Let me know if you have any questions.
Rick

[SW Rick]

There is, by the way, at least one place in Moab which develops film: Moab Art Works (http://moabartworks.com/film.html). Moab Action shots was, 2-3 years ago, also still doing 4x5. I'd check to be sure. If it were me, I'd use Moab Art Works- not cheap, but I'd guess the better bet. You might even use them for a few shots to be sure everything is going well as you shoot. If you're looking for a guide, Bret Edge is a good one, and may do half-days. I know you can "hire" him to make up shooting itineraries for you, which may put you in the right places at the right time, with limited days there. Check him out at: www.bretedge.com (he's also a Moab police officer). Enjoy!

[Turner Reich]

Go to Arches and spend the 5 days there and forget the drive to other places unless you are willing to add to the time limit. Moab is very friendly with many fine restaurants, Arches is next to town, you will pass by it on the way in. It's a very nice place to visit and relax. The drive from Salt Lake to Moab is kind of dull but when you get there it's very nice. Like John said you could take the train and get off closer. Have fun.

[Dave Hally]

If you are going to end up at LV, be sure to try to see Valley of Fire state park, just southeast of Vegas.
Dave

[rdenney]

If you are going to end up at LV, be sure to try to see Valley of Fire state park, just southeast of Vegas.
Dave

Actually, it's northeast of Vegas--exit 75 off I-15 if coming from town the quickest way.

Boulder and Hoover Dam are southeast of Vegas.

Rick "who spent lots of time there on a project a few years back" Denney

[QT Luong]

Get Laurent Martres guide to Southern Utah at phototripusa.com and read it carefully. At the end, there is a rating of sites. It is also wonderfully illustrated, which will help you decide where to go.

[nray]

Wow...thanks guys. I haven't logged on in awhile and have gotten some more great advice.

I did order Laurent's book and have been combing through it. He did a great job compiling the book. First rate. It's telling me I should plan to spend a year there if I want to see all there is to see. :)

I would like to get off at Grand Junction but at that time of the year, I'm not sure if it stops there every day. Plus, my wife wants to go to up to SLC.

Thanks again guys.

[venchka]

A year may not be long enough.

[gevalia]

Take the Route 12/24 scenic trip. A week is not enough time to see even a little bit of this amazing area but it is enough time to get you hooked. You'll be coming back for years and years - as I do. I'd say, throw in Arches and Bryce on a fast-track. Arches at sunset and Bryce before sunrise. Again, you're just gonna get postacard shots but the trick on your 1st trip is to see the amazing range of lanscapes available and take home a few keepers because you could honestly spend a week in 1 place very easily and never see all its beauty.

[Tom Monego]

Last fall we came at the Southern Utah trip from the other direction. Flew to LasVegas, my wife hadn't been there, did visit the Neon Museum (aka graveyard), but one day was more than enough. We drove up to Springdale Utah, stayed in a lovely place, The RedRock Inn. On the way we visited the Valley of Fire, Nevada State Park. Springdale is at the main entrance to Zion NP, fantastic place. Kept running into someone with a Linhoff, felt inadequate with my D200, he was in a camper traveling the country. BTW Red Rock Inn has a room with a fenced off hot tub, would be a nice night for your 30th.
Cedar Breaks is a small but dramatic (earlier trip) well worth the drive, its one main look out is beautiful, take a photo, then look up Ansel Adams and Cedar Breaks, same shot.
From Springdale we went to Page AZ, Antelope Canyon, HorseShoe Curve etc. Lower Antelope would be easier on someone with a view camera. Upper Antelope is just too crowded.
The area between Springdale and Page is also interesting, part of the Grande Staircase Escallante some very interesting formations, including the Wave which has a very restricted entry policy. We didn't get in on the day we wanted but did run into a maintenance worker who said there were many other lesser known formations in the area, said he could spend a month there and not see them all.
As folks have said this area is vast, the closest drug store to Zion ended up as being in Page 120mi east. I would also give the Grand Canyon a pass, unless you absolutely have to see it. Wear yourself out hiking and exploring not driving.

Tom

[eddie]

i started in LV and worked my way to SLC in 21 days and felt i was rushed.

hang around moab. great place plenty to shoot. canyonlands, etc.

[nray]

Good morning.

Just resurrecting this old thread to say thanks again for the great advice. We completed our trip. I can't tell you the awe I felt in seeing these grand sights for the first time. I did use my 4x5 but only sparingly as the time was mostly spent with my wife as we experienced it together.

We started in Salt Lake City, drove to Dinosaur National Monument and to Echo Park. Then drove down through Colorado to Moab for 3 nights. Took the Lasal Mt. Loop to the north. Ended up at the Priest and Nuns. Later went to Arches, then Canyonlands, Island in the Sky. We took some great hikes there. Our favorite was going to the false Kiva. We were all by ourselves there and back and got lost off trail on the way back. :) (That was fun but strenuous.) It was impossible to see everything there. We then traveled toward Blanding and then Mexican Hat. In Blanding we stopped at Edge of the Cedars State Park to see a real Kiva. Next toured Valley of the Gods. This was my compromise as I wanted to really go to Monument Valley but was voted down by the board of directors. (My wife) Goosenecks State Park was next. We then had to drive all the way up to Torrey because of time constraints. So, could not stop along the way. (The drive up the mountain out of Mexican Hat (rt.261) was rather frightening, but fun.) In Torrey we went to Capitol Reef and into the Capitol Gorge. Fun seeing the names inscribed on the canyon wall of the old settlers. Then drove down to Tropic east of Bryce. Toured Bryce twice. Left the next day for Zion, then the Grand Canyon and flew out of Las Vegas for a 10 day trip.

I took over a 1000 digital shots. Also brought along an old 35mm Minolta X370 loaded with velvia that I gave to my wife. I also took about 8 4x5's.

When we were at Canyonlands I was shooting as the sun was setting. It was nice but not spectacular. Then....as the sun had set I turned back and took a shot of my wife. When I looked at it I couldn't believe my eyes. The rock was glowing red and yellows. Wow. I quickly hurried toward the eastern overlook (the White Rim) and took some time exposures. Wow again. Took advantage of this from then on and at Bryce and got some wonderful shots.

In summary, it was a fantastic trip. It was a first for me to see such sights and the phrase that kept going through my head was "What hath God Wrought" every time we made the next turn. I did make some reservations for motels ahead of time, but wished we had done the whole trip as just about every place was booked solid and we had to scramble at times to find a place to sleep. September is one of the busiest months as Europeans are over in abundance visiting. I got to stop at Tom Till's store in Moab. Man, he is prolific. I felt like just donating there at the store just knowing all he had to go through to get the photo. :) Well, I also learned a lot. I took all my shots on my digital underexposed by almost a stop. If you use a flash in Bryce, the walls explode with color! Anyway, we had a great time and visited with many along the way.

(Laurent Martres book was just fantastic and I used it extensively for planning our days.)

[Terence McDonagh]

I finally made it to Utah two years ago. By the end of the week, I'd already made a reservation at the lodge in Zion NP for the same time next year. And within 12 months of the first trip, I went back to Utah three more times and had hit Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands and Arches, in addition to several smaller parks and wilderness areas.

Utah is addicting. Been back two more times since then. So far, Cathedral Valley in Capitol Reef is my favorite area. But I think that's only because I haven't gotten far enough into the backcountry of Canyonlands.

[eddie]

thanks for the update. sounds awesome....show us those 4x5s...:)

[gevalia]

Sounds like a good trip. A good "beginning". i say that because I'll be out there next week for my usual October 2-week trip (i do April as well). I got hooked almost 10 years ago and with very few exceptions, have been out there at least once a year.

My 1st trip was with a digital before I did film. Once I went to 4x5, I have never looked back. I do miss the light by minutes sometimes whil setting up but I still end up with 40+ unique 4x5 negatives per trip. This year (next week) I have added Portra and Astia along with Velvia to finally shoot some color when I am out there. Boulder Mountain on the way to Escalante is almost always spectacular mid-October.


Ron

[Eric Leppanen]

Our favorite was going to the false Kiva. We were all by ourselves there and back and got lost off trail on the way back. :) (That was fun but strenuous.)I have been thinking about doing this hike. Did you have any trouble finding the kiva during the hike down? How well was the trail marked with cairns, etc.? Did you get lost on the way back due to declining late afternoon light, or just made a wrong turn? Did you use a map or GPS for reference, or did you just follow the trail?

Thanks!

[nray]

I have been thinking about doing this hike. Did you have any trouble finding the kiva during the hike down? How well was the trail marked with cairns, etc.? Did you get lost on the way back due to declining late afternoon light, or just made a wrong turn? Did you use a map or GPS for reference, or did you just follow the trail?

Thanks!

Most of the way we scoured the ground for footprints and the small cairns. There were many times on the flat rock you had to have direction from the cairns. Finally, I could see the Kiva cavern way up in the side of the mountain once we got that far. But, I figured that couldn't possibly be the place as it looked impossible to get at. As we traversed the side of the mountain we found the first cavern which was huge. I knew it wasn't the one though and kept walking to the other end and found the trail to the second cavern.

Here is the first cavern:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/nray53/1st-Cavern.jpg

Here is the second Kiva Cavern:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/nray53/False-Kiva-Cavern.jpg

It was a great adventure. We got lost on the way back I suppose because we didn't keep our nose to the ground. The path becomes very undulating and somewhat steep in the end. Do it! I took multiple exposures at the Kiva to try and piece together the correct exposure on everything.

[Terence McDonagh]

For False Kiva, ask at the ranger station. They won't tell you about it unless you ask (try to do it when others aren't standing around), to keep traffic to a minimum, but they have a book with detailed photos of the trail and what to look for at turns in the trail, etc. A bit of a knee-knocker, but not too tough of a hike otherwise.

I owned a poster of it by Tom Till, in college. The first time I was in Moab, I just happened to walk into Tom Till's gallery and see an Ilfochrome of the very same image. Until then, I don't think I even realized the site was in Utah.

[rdenney]

I owned a poster of it by Tom Till, in college. The first time I was in Moab, I just happened to walk into Tom Till's gallery and see an Ilfochrome of the very same image. Until then, I don't think I even realized the site was in Utah.

I own one of his 16x20 Ilfochromes of that photo. It is stunning. He says he won't say where it is, and from this thread I have learned that it is accessible. My wife, who had a panic attack (from the precariousness of the trail) going to Delicate Arch would probably not be a candidate for this trail. I'll have to find a way to do it with someone else next time I'm out there.

And it's been too long. I've been to all the places mentioned (except the false kiva), including having driven the White Rim Trail, driven to the Maze Overlook, into the back country of the Needles District, Pritchett Canyon, Long Canyon, the Burr Trail, Cathedral Rocks and Thousand Lake Mountain, and on and on. But it's been six years and I need to get back. Going back there feeds my soul.

Rick "wondering how the climb up the monocline in Medicine Hat got a mention but Scenic Highway 12 didn't" Denney

[Terence McDonagh]

I bought the same Ilfochrome. Beautiful. He didn't tell me where it was, but seeing it there made me realize it was in Utah, and a little internet research got me what I needed. The ranger's information just made it easier to follow the trail which was under 6"-12" of snow when I was there.

After seeing the location and many photos of the place, I still think Tom Till's is far and away the best.

Aside from the view, my favorite part of the hike was that the canyon walls carry one hell of an echo when you're in the niche where the ruin is. A hand-clap sounded like a series of gunshots.