Polaroid Resurection?

[Ron Marshall]

Too early to say, but perhaps there is still hope:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/technology/26polaroid.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=global-home&adxnnlx=1243350216-POEGN0K3ouHTC9y+zPbCCg

[Nathan Potter]

Ron, this enterprise has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum. The intent is to re-establish the Polaroid pack film cassettes which is what the specific equipment set that was bought can do. No specific business plan has been disclosed and I would question the viability of a reasonable ROI. But hey, they have assembled a quite capable technical team.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[csant]

Ron, that is http://www.the-impossible-project.com/ . The fact that Ilford seems to be somehow backing the project makes it sound like more than just a crazy dream.

[Henry Carter]

Is Fuji instant pack film not a replacement for Polaroid pack film? It certainly is if you have a Polaroid 405 film holder, and now Fuji 4X5 pack film is more readily available to the US market (for use in the Polaroid 505 holder).

Not only does this company have the challenge of trying to resurrect Polaroid type film, they have to compete against an established high quality competitor - Fuji.

[Oren Grad]

It's not immediately relevant here even if they succeed. AFAIK what they're working on for now is a replacement for the SX-70/600 type integral films, not for the sheet/pack films used in LF cameras. This is a sort of extension of the Lomography venture, which is mostly about selling toy film cameras at inflated prices into a market of users seeking quirkiness for its own sake.

[Sevo]

Is Fuji instant pack film not a replacement for Polaroid pack film? It certainly is if you have a Polaroid 405 film holder, and now Fuji 4X5 pack film is more readily available to the US market (for use in the Polaroid 505 holder).

Not only does this company have the challenge of trying to resurrect Polaroid type film, they have to compete against an established high quality competitor - Fuji.

Close, but no cigar... What they acquired is the Dutch Polaroid composite (SX70 type) instant film production plant - the sheet and pack film plants seem to have been scrapped and/or sold for non-optical film production, so that a similar revival of Polaroid pack or sheet film is unlikely. The more so as Fuji now is the market leader where instant pack film is concerned, which would be quite a stumbling block for any reintroduction, while there is no competitor for Polaroid compatible composite film.

Sevo

[Wallace_Billingham]

This is a plan to have B&W film come in Polaroid 600 carts. Ilford is going to make the film and then everything is going to be put together in Holland into B&W Polaroid 600.

There is both a lot of hope and a lot of angst in the Polaroid Communtiy over this. On the one hand it will be great to be able to use all the Polaroid 600 cameras out there, on the other hand there is concern that the "Lomgraphy" side of things will push it over the edge.

[Vlad Soare]

AFAIK what they're working on for now is a replacement for the SX-70/600 type integral films, not for the sheet/pack films used in LF cameras. This is a sort of extension of the Lomography venture, which is mostly about selling toy film cameras at inflated prices into a market of users seeking quirkiness for its own sake.
Oren, while I agree with your definition of Lomography, I personally wouldn't apply it to the Polaroid 600. I used to own a 600 camera about twelve or thirteen years ago, and it was great fun. I certainly wasn't looking for quirkiness for its own sake. The photos were quite good (except when I got a defective sheet, which happened very often, but that's another story). I wouldn't compare the 600 with a Holga.
I sold the camera because 600 film was too expensive for a poor student, and getting at least one defective sheet in every pack was extremely frustrating. But I definitely miss it.

[Wallace_Billingham]

Oren, while I agree with your definition of Lomography, I personally wouldn't apply it to the Polaroid 600.

I can't speak for Oren, but I think I know what he means. The team behind the current push to bring back this fim has nothing to do with Polaroid. The "marketing guy" they talk about in the linked article was/is the head of marketing for "Lomography". What they did was market a bunch of cheap Russian made cameras (Lomo LCA), at a very premium price. Suddenly that camera you could easily buy in Russia for less than $10 American was selling for $250.

Once that was underway they then turned to other cameras which had nothing to do with Lomo and snatched them into the "Lomography Brand" cameras such as the Holga and Diana.

Since the head of this project has this as his background, the fear is that this film will fall into the same marketing scheme. It will not be just a new vendor of film for your Polaroid 600 camera, but will be some hip, trendy, thing that they will sell at a very premium price.

My guess is that much like they did with the Lomo LCA they will also buy up a bunch of dead stock Polaroid 600 cameras for pennies on the dollar and sell them as part of a package.

[Oren Grad]

I can't speak for Oren, but I think I know what he means.

Yup, you got it.

There are plenty of people who seem to be having a good time with the Lomography stuff, and more power to them. It's just that whatever else this new Polaroid venture may be doing, at least for now it's not about bringing back Type 55 or any of the other typical LF uses of Polaroid.

Maybe Harman's willingness to be identified in association with this venture is a signal that they'll eventually get there. That would be great, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Gene McCluney]

Yup, you got it.

There are plenty of people who seem to be having a good time with the Lomography stuff, and more power to them. It's just that whatever else this new Polaroid venture may be doing, at least for now it's not about bringing back Type 55 or any of the other typical LF uses of Polaroid.

Maybe Harman's willingness to be identified in association with this venture is a signal that they'll eventually get there. That would be great, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, they HAVE to have a partner that has a film engineering and coating operation, because they don't have one themselves. All the "coating" of light sensitive materials were done at Polaroids USA plants now long gone.

It should be noted that this plant has ONLY assembled "integral film". It has never made peel-apart Polaroid films (such as type 55), and does not have the equipment to do that. The only practical product that can come from this "alliance" will be integral film packs.

The Lomography "movement" and the Diana and other plastic cameras promoted as tools for creating unique "art" probably are keeping alive the medium-format film production.

[Ben Syverson]

Since the head of this project has this as his background, the fear is that this film will fall into the same marketing scheme. It will not be just a new vendor of film for your Polaroid 600 camera, but will be some hip, trendy, thing that they will sell at a very premium price.
Maybe, but they're still a business. If they want to make money selling 600 film, it will have to be both expensive enough for them to make a profit yet cheap enough that students and 20 somethings can actually afford it.

Personally, I don't care about their marketing style as long as they release some interesting films.

BTW, I think 600 / SX-70 film is relevant here, because it is large format. I define "large format" as any film format which is both taller AND longer than 6cm (medium format). When you consider that the SX-70 is a large format SLR which collapses to fit in a jacket pocket, Dr. Land's accomplishment is truly incredible. The fact that the film is instant is just the icing on the cake.

[Wallace_Billingham]

Maybe, but they're still a business. If they want to make money selling 600 film, it will have to be both expensive enough for them to make a profit yet cheap enough that students and 20 somethings can actually afford it.

Personally, I don't care about their marketing style as long as they release some interesting films.


The interesting thing will be that unlike the Lomo-LCA, the Holga, and the Diana there are millions and millions of perfectly usuable and working Polaroid 600 series cameras out there, and they were pretty solidly built and last a long time. My guess is that at one point or another every American family owned one. You can't go to a flea market or yard sale without finding one for a buck or two.

That means that they will have to market the film and not the camera as they have been doing. It will be pretty hard to sell a $150 Polaroid 600 to a college age kid when his parents more than likely have one in the back of the closet they can get for free.

Contrast that with the LCA that is easy to find in Russia but very hard to find outside of Russia, and the lawyers at Lomography keep it that way.




BTW, I think 600 / SX-70 film is relevant here, because it is large format. I define "large format" as any film format which is both taller AND longer than 6cm (medium format). When you consider that the SX-70 is a large format SLR which collapses to fit in a jacket pocket, Dr. Land's accomplishment is truly incredible. The fact that the film is instant is just the icing on the cake.

I agree with you there 100%

[Oren Grad]

BTW, I think 600 / SX-70 film is relevant here, because it is large format. I define "large format" as any film format which is both taller AND longer than 6cm (medium format).

Nothing wrong with that and, of course, nothing wrong with enjoying 600 / SX-70 film. It's just that a factory that makes only 600 / SX-70 film is not much help to someone who wants something they can use in a 4x5 or 8x10 camera. That's all.

[Gene McCluney]

Nothing wrong with that and, of course, nothing wrong with enjoying 600 / SX-70 film. It's just that a factory that makes only 600 / SX-70 film is not much help to someone who wants something they can use in a 4x5 or 8x10 camera. That's all.

Yes, and you should not look to "The Impossible Project" for any relief from your needs for 4x5 and 8x10 instant films, rather you should be getting friendly with Fuji, which already serves the 4x5 Instant film "peel apart" market, and I'm sure is seeing its volume increasing every month as more people become acquainted with the film backs and products available from Fuji.

"The Impossible Project" can't make peel-apart films. They never had the technology there at that plant in the Netherlands, and the Polaroid USA plants are gone. Only Fuji has the technology and manufacturing "know-how" to do this...and does it now, just not as extensive a line-up as Polaroid had, but that could change. I wouldn't ever expect another P/N film like type 55 though.

Now, on the other hand, Fuji CAN and DOES make Integral film, just not in sizes that will fit the 600 and SX-70 cameras.

[Ben Syverson]

It's true... no one is clamoring to make 809 film again. Which is a shame, because I would have loved to try it out.