Durst or DeVere

[Adam Touffay]

Some opinions on Durst or modern DeVere's for B&W printing.

[Kevin M Bourque]

Never used a Durst, my Devere 504 is a joy to use. Rock solid. When I align it, it stays aligned. If you're in the US they're not especially common, which could be a problem.

[Allen in Montreal]

I have never used a DeVere, but I don't think you could go really wrong with either choice. Are you eyeing two units at the moment? Which offers you the best overall financial deal and compatibility with the formats you shoot?

[Shen45]

I have a DeVere and a friend has a Durst -- what can you say really is there much difference between a Rolls and a Bentley :)

Probably only because I have a DeVere I prefer it over the Durst.

Steve

[Brian K]

I own 2 Durst L184's and from personal experience I can state that due to the extreme unreliability of service, parts and repairs for them that I wish I never bought them. Go with a DeVere and buy or get it serviced from KHB in Ontario.

[Peter De Smidt]

I have two De Vere's. They're great.

[George E. Sheils]

I have a Durst L1200 with colour head.

Great machine.

[Mick Fagan]

I've used some incredible Durst enlargers, as well as some incredible DeVere enlargers, both are excellent and more or less over engineered for the job.

If you are after a simple enlarger, built like a rock, will never ever have alignment problems once aligned, DeVere.

Durst simple models are also built like a rock, but a lot of Durst machines came with many electrical wonders.

The Durst enlargers are technical wonders, generally, they are a dream to use, but dependent upon the model, can be a bit iffy with little technical stuff sometimes going awry.

Think of a shutter in the 8x10 models not working perfectly.

I myself run a free standing DeVere 504 with a colour head for B&W printing. It is a simple enlarger, with effectively the only moving part being the cooling fan in the head. I don't think there is a part on this enlarger I cannot fix myself.

The 507 DeVere would be my pick of the enlargers, it is still small enough to fit in most darkrooms, yet can handle 6x17 panoramic negatives, something a 504 cannot. The 8x10 DeVere enlargers start to get a bit on the big side if they are free standing.

The focusing system of the DeVere enlargers is far easier to use than almost all other enlargers, which require you to reach up to either knobs, or focusing sticks.

The Durst enlargers with a colour head, generally have one very good feature, a neutral density filter. This is a two stop, or 60 units, density filter. For speed in a busy darkroom, this is a brilliant feature.

Basically you run the filter at 30 units as a standard. You know your enlarging time is say 20 seconds, which gives you ample time to hold (or dodge) back some part of the image. You are happy with your 8x10 full frame print, of which, you have just done 26 prints of.

Then you have to do the same thing on a 16x20 piece of paper.

No problem, you wind up the enlarger, take out one full stop of neutral density, then expose your first print for 20 seconds with the same amount of dodging, within reason your first larger print, will be almost identical.

I say almost, my experience is that you will have to add about 1/20th of a stop extra exposure.

Some food for thought.

Mick.

[Brian K]

Given that most Durst professional enlargers and their components were discontinued 10,20,30 years ago and that any support for them is extremely unreliable, it is best to either not consider them, or to consider the simpler designs for which most parts can be easily repaired or manufactured by ANY machinist. If one buys the really complex Durst colorheads one is then reliant on buying new dichro reflectors every few years, at a cost of around $1500. The computerized Durst heads may use chips and electronic components that are no longer made or available.

As I stated earlier I own 2 durst L184 color enlargers and would not do so again if I knew then what I know now.

[Phil Hudson]

One big difference I have noticed is the attention to detail in the negative handling. The Durst is far more refined than the De Vere in this regard. On the Durst L1200 for example the entire carrier slides on roller bearings into the light path. The De Vere 504 clamps the head down tight onto the negative "sandwich" a bit more crudely. I sometimes wonder whether all that pressure is hurting strips of roll film.......

Just curious, how do other De Vere users get around this?

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

I have two Durst 1200, one with a color head and and an other with Durst varicontrast head. Those are 16 years old and the one with varicontrast head was used every day for the first 6 years. Then I have two 184's, one is 45 years old with condensers and a Aristo varicontrast head and the other has a 2000 color head. I got the first one 25 years ago and the other 8 years ago. Some times you loose a screw from the negative carrier which you usually find on the floor if you look for it. Some times a bulb blows. The 184 with the color head has motors that drive the head and the table up and down and the focusing. Those are connected to a control board and you some times you have to check the connections. Besides that those four have never needed any service, not even an alignment.

[Adam Touffay]

The reason I am considering Durst or DeVere is because I am familiar with Durst and from what I have read, think DeVere is an excellent alternative. I am here in the US and am not even thinking about Omega or Beseler, although I have used both. Omega is fine for printing color I would say from past experience. However when it comes to heads, carriers, and accessories, the American brands don't offer much. Now ZoneVI would be a consideration. Any thoughts from anyone on the Zone VI.

The largest format I would be printing would be 4x5 and do have a preference to condenser heads since I shoot and process my film with that in mind.

From what I have read years ago, what set Durst apart from others was their condensors. To my understanding the condensors were manufactured to perform as lenses rather than another piece of glass in the light path.

[Adam Touffay]

I have never used a DeVere, but I don't think you could go really wrong with either choice. Are you eyeing two units at the moment? Which offers you the best overall financial deal and compatibility with the formats you shoot?

Dear Allen:
I am shootin 35mm to 4x5. Would like one or the other, not both although that would be nice. Have never used a DeVere either. What do you like and dislike with what you are now using?

[Adam Touffay]

I have a DeVere and a friend has a Durst -- what can you say really is there much difference between a Rolls and a Bentley :)

Probably only because I have a DeVere I prefer it over the Durst.

Steve

Steve:
Have you had the opportunity to use your friend's Durst and has he had the chance to print using your DeVere?

If so, what differences do you two find and your likes and dislikes about each?

[Hans Berkhout]

I own the DeVere 504 and the Durst L1200, both with dichroic head. Use DeVere all the time, Durst is back-up. Except for 35 mm, I use the glass neg carrier for sheet and roll film. Replacemant glass still easy to find both regular and anti-newton. The dichro settings are quicker to change on the DeVere, as opposed to working with the hanging Durst- important for me since I do a lot of split filter printing with the Heiland unit.
Both stay in alignment well, I do check it reglarly with the Versalab laser system since every now and then I bang my head against the lens stage. Focusing for the DeVere is at base board level, this is very convenient, you can fine focus in a relaxed position of your arm/neck/shoulder.

[Hans Berkhout]

that should be "the hanging Durst rods"

[ic-racer]

Format? 8x10 or 4x5?

[Adam Touffay]

4x5 B&W.

[ic-racer]

4x5 B&W.

Ok. I'm a little surprised you don't like the Omega offerings. I have both Omega and Durst enlargers and the Omega parts and accessories are pretty easy to locate in the USA. Durst may indeed have more of a system of heads and carriers, but tracking them down and buying them can be expensive or impossible.

I have almost every carrier, mask, and lensboard for my 4x5 Omegas. Many in duplicate or triplicate. Plus spare columns, heads and controllers and power supplies. Some of the stuff was actually free and a lot of it was like new in the box.

For my Durst 8x10 I have not seen a power supply for sale ever, a Dichro. head for less than $1500, a lensboard for less than $150 or a negative carrier for less than $250 (understanding that this may not be representative of Durst 4x5 availability in the USA).

[IanG]

Over the past 40 years I've used many Durst's and De Vere's, both are excellent. Perhaps the Durst negative carriers are more sophisticated but overall De Vere's are a touch more rugged.

I've owned 3 Durst's and 2 De Vere's and I'm still using 2 of the Durst's and my main 10x8 De Vere. If I had to make a choice between the two makes it would be purely down to availability & price.

Ian

[Turner Reich]

Given that most Durst professional enlargers and their components were discontinued 10,20,30 years ago and that any support for them is extremely unreliable, it is best to either not consider them, or to consider the simpler designs for which most parts can be easily repaired or manufactured by ANY machinist. If one buys the really complex Durst colorheads one is then reliant on buying new dichro reflectors every few years, at a cost of around $1500. The computerized Durst heads may use chips and electronic components that are no longer made or available.

true

[Shen45]

One big difference I have noticed is the attention to detail in the negative handling. The Durst is far more refined than the De Vere in this regard. On the Durst L1200 for example the entire carrier slides on roller bearings into the light path. The De Vere 504 clamps the head down tight onto the negative "sandwich" a bit more crudely. I sometimes wonder whether all that pressure is hurting strips of roll film.......

Just curious, how do other De Vere users get around this?

There is nothing to get around. The system works perfectly. The DeVere neg carrier is very good.

[Peter De Smidt]

I prefer the older, thicker style of De Vere carrier. Luckily, with slightly longer posts, the old carrier works fine in newer De Veres.

[Bazz8]

Steve:
Have you had the opportunity to use your friend's Durst and has he had the chance to print using your DeVere?

If so, what differences do you two find and your likes and dislikes about each?


Considering I can print 24"x20" of the basebourd with a 35mm neg and that is not fully wound down with my 138s Iam a big fan of the Durst , when you see a 5x4 enlarged with one the quality is outstanding.
I have seen Steves and its a nice piece of work as well he did some testing of a batch of film and the light quality and eveness is brilliant.
Get either you won,t be sorry.:D

[Allen in Montreal]

Dear Allen:
I am shootin 35mm to 4x5. Would like one or the other, not both although that would be nice. Have never used a DeVere either. What do you like and dislike with what you are now using?


Good morning Adam,

I have only been using the Durst 138s a few months, but to date, there is nothing I do not like about the Durst. I bet a new DeVere owner could say the very same.

It takes to time to scour for the odd parts you need here and there but they can be found. I found most of the parts on I need on E bay for a very reasonable price.

There are many Durst 1000 and 1200 series units that sell rather cheap on E bay and parts seem to be plentiful. I have a condenser, head have almost always printed graded papers using Dektol/Selektol Soft split developing when needed, I am not sure a color head would be an important detail for myself, as I mentioned in the cold light to condenser switch thread, I had been eager to get a cold light head, until I realized just how nice the Durst condensers really are and I would suggest giving them a try before righting off the idea of condenser head printing if the unit comes with them.

The best bang for the buck on either brand will no doubt result in an enjoyable darkroom experience.

As IC mentioned, if cost is a factor, there are also many very good deals on Omega and Beseler units at the moment too. That said, having come off a Beseler 45mx, I can understand your desire for a either of the two units mentioned.