4X5 Tray Development Technique

[Michael Wainfeld]

A small question-All of the instructions on tray development say to transfer the sheets one by one between trays. But once the film is wet, why not transfer the whole stack and then begin shuffling? Quicker, and less handling.
Mike

[Louie Powell]

You could do that, but one issue is that you will carry much more of each chemical into the next tray. Also, you put the sheets into the the first tray one at a time, and in theory if you take them out one at a time and in the same order, each sheet will have the same time in the tray as every other sheet. But if you put them in individually, and then take them out as a batch, the last sheets into the developer will have less development time than the first sheets in.

I use a slosher - every sheet goes into the tray at the same instant of time, and comes out at the same instant in time, and each sheet drains thoroughly between trays.

[Gem Singer]

No problem, Michael.

I have read a few instructions for tray processing that mention picking up the entire stack of film, like a deck of cards, and transferring them to the next tray. Then, continue shuffling through the stack.

Once the films are wet, they won't stick together. However, they are very suceptable to scratching, so be careful.

[Nathan Potter]

I don't think it's ever been mentioned here, so I will. If I have say four or less sheets to develop and use a tray I put them in the standard stainless steel (SS) film holders. But I use holders that have the upper hanger part bent upwards at about 45 degrees. This way I can tray develop with the film in the hanger lying flat and hold onto the bent up part which is out of the solution while doing gentle agitation. I can stack up to 4 of these in a sufficiently deep tray. They are very easy to transfer from one bath to another and the films never contact one another. Haven't had an uneven development incident yet.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[sun of sand]

I thought about doing that for stand development so that the neg is up off the tray bottom but figured the weight of solution would buckle the film pulling it out of the holder

I'll have to try it out as soon as can get some hangers

[Derek Kennedy]

I have yet to try stand development in a tray for sheet film. I would have thought that if the sheet is basically sitting on the bottom of the tray - emulsion up - wouldnt this set up be good as far as stand development is concerned?

I understand that there can be issues when stand developing 35/120mm film (is: the developer settling(?) on the bottom of the tank) - so: wouldnt stand developing in a tank with sheet film be better?

Excuse my ignorance on this issue (since I have never tried it). To me, it would just make sense that it would be better stand developing sheet film vs roll film.

[Nathan Potter]

I thought about doing that for stand development so that the neg is up off the tray bottom but figured the weight of solution would buckle the film pulling it out of the holder

I'll have to try it out as soon as can get some hangers

I started using the bent holders when I was doing lith film and masking for Ifochrome prints. I use it now for small quantity Tmax and Acros film development. Never had film fall out of the holder but I do only gentle agitation sequences. I carry the films thru all the process steps except final photoflo where they are transferred to drying clips before immersion. Pretty simple and easy to load but ya gotta work in the dark. :)

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Merg Ross]

No problem, Michael.

I have read a few instructions for tray processing that mention picking up the entire stack of film, like a deck of cards, and transferring them to the next tray. Then, continue shuffling through the stack.

Once the films are wet, they won't stick together. However, they are very suceptable to scratching, so be careful.

The stack method works well. I usually tray develop up to twelve sheets at a time and move them as a stack from developer, to stop, to fix. After a presoak (I always do this, regardless of claims to the contrary) the films are placed individually into the developer; this should take about 30 seconds or less. However, this procedure works best if development times are at least a minimum of ten or twelve minutes.

[Gem Singer]

Good advice, Merg.

I tray develop my 8X10 negatives, placing the films one at a time into the a pre-soak water, so that the sheets don't stick together.

After a two minute pre-soak, I transfer the entire stack to the developer and shuffle through the stack continuously for the first minute. Then, once each minute until the time expires.

For 4X5 and 5X7 negatives, I use S.S. hangers and dip-and-dunk in two liter tanks.

[Doremus Scudder]

Michael,

What Merg said is standard practice. The films, after presoaking, are fanned like a hand of cards (this takes a bit of getting used to, but is easy after a while) and immersed in the developer one at a time to ensure even contact with the solution. This should take 30 seconds or less. Unlike Merg, I can only comfortably develop up to 8 films at at time, and prefer batches of six in deep 5x7 trays. This makes for a convenient 5-seconds-per-film immersion scheme.

When developing time is up, you should make sure that your first film is on the top of the stack (that means keeping track of it during developing! I turn one sheet 180° to the rest), pick up the stack, give it a ten-second drain, and immerse it in the stop. Shuffle through the stack in the same intervals as you immersed the film, and every sheet should have the same development time.

Alternately, you can do what I do, and fan the stack between developer and stop and immerse the films one at a time in stop at the same intervals as you did when putting them in the developer. To do this, you need to make sure sheet one ends up on the bottom of the stack and then fan the stack so you can take the sheets one-at-a-time from the bottom. For me, this solved some streaking problems I was having with pyro developers.

I just pick up the whole stack from the stop and transfer it to the fix, since fix goes to completion anyway, but don't start timing the fix until I've shuffled through the stack once to make sure the last sheet gets adequate time in the solution.


As far as timing goes, you can start/stop the developing time like I do, when the first sheet hits the developer/when the first sheet hits the stop or use another similar scheme. As long as you do the same thing every time, you will get consistent results.

Hope this helps,

Doremus Scudder

[Derek Kennedy]

For the dip-and-dunk using ss hangers - what would be the way to do this? Ie, do I dip-and-dunk (agitate?) for the first min, let hang in the dev for the next min, dip-and-dunk again - that sort of thing?

I just got some 4x5 ss hangers and when I can find a decent solution of tanks, I'll want to use the hangers.

[jnantz]

A small question-All of the instructions on tray development say to transfer the sheets one by one between trays. But once the film is wet, why not transfer the whole stack and then begin shuffling? Quicker, and less handling.
Mike

hi mike

i process between 8 and 30-something sheets at a time in trays ...

i put them one at a time in a water bath before developer to pre-soak
and separate/ count them to make sure they aren't stuck together.
between trays, i lift the whole stack and run the liquid off the corner
then in the next solution. i count and separate each sheet to make sure
they aren't stuck together again ... in developer, then in water, then in the fix ...

never had scratches or trouble and been doing it this way for 10-15 years ..

good luck

[Gem Singer]

Derek,

Once you have placed the film into the tank containing the developer, lift, and tilt the entire rack of hangers continuously for the first minute. Subsequently, Lift and tilt forward, then lift and tilt backward, once each minute until the total developing time expires.

A pre-soak is optional. There is no danger of the sheets of film sticking together.

This method is intermittent agitation. Constant shuffling in a tray is continuous agitation.

Allowing the film to rest between periods of agitation enables the developer to exhaust in the highlight areas, while the development in the shadow areas continues. A compensating effect.

See: Ansel Adams:"The Negative".

[Gem Singer]

BTW, Derek,

Yankee makes a plastic two liter hanger tank. This is not the Yankee daylight developing tank.

These tanks are much less expensive and are designed to be used with S.S. hangers.

[Derek Kennedy]

Gem:

Thanks for that information - I was wondering how it was done. It seems pretty straight forward. I've seen the Yankee hanger tanks at Freestyle but didnt have enough to put in a order to justify the exchange/shipping yet but planned on ordering a few of those tanks.

[jason1388]

prewash the film by placing them one by one into a tray of water. shuffle them for a minute once they are all in it then transfer them all into the developer at once. some being in the water longer than others isnt going to effect them. my negatives come out flawless.