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kv nguyen
20-May-2009, 18:17
i have a apo-germinar 450mm f9. I couldn't find much information about it. Can someone help me out ? is it any good ?

Arne Croell
20-May-2009, 23:56
There is some basic information in my article on the home page of this forum, although I have to admit that I need to update the article: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/docter-optik.html
Also, this forum has a search function, and there were several threads over the years on Apo-Germinars. In a nutshell, your lens is one of the best 450's (within its image circle) out there, but you need a behind the lens shutter for it - mounting the Zeiss Jena barrel Apo-G's. in a shutter would be prohibitively expensive.

RJ-
21-May-2009, 10:35
It's a fascinating optic; I've never used anything quite like it. The 450mm f9.0 Apo-Germinar (http://groups.google.co.uk/group/wholeplate/web/3-82-docter-wetzlar-optic-apo-germinar-450mm-f9) is in a league of its own, particularly if you're looking for a balance between image resolution, image circle and compactness. The linked page is dedicated for whole plate photographers looking for a 450mm lens as a short telephoto lens although it might be applicable to you, if you wish to compare its characteristics against other dialytes (assymetrical); tessar types or plasmat variants in this focal length.

I find the Copal 3 shutter version much more flexible to use; it also has a greater image circle than the barrel version. The barrel version is extraordinarily heavy compared to the shutter version - perhaps Arne can shed some light on this.

One alternative to the rear lens shutter set-up, requires the use of a front mounting Silens or Zettor shutter. Both offer an instantaneous 1/15th second, perhaps slower or variable due to age, a B + T setting.

If you aren't able to do either, then a 10,000x factor neutral density filter in a 58mm 0.75x pitch will help you control the shutter speeds with a standard lens cap.

Kind regards,

RJ

Whole Plate Column (http://groups.google.co.uk/group/wholeplate)

kv nguyen
21-May-2009, 12:16
i will used the lens with the sinar shutter in my 8x10 camera . Thanks for the info of the lens

Arne Croell
21-May-2009, 13:31
i will used the lens with the sinar shutter in my 8x10 camera . Thanks for the info of the lens

Good, with a Sinar shutter you're all set to use it - its a great lens! With respect to RJ's question, the Zeiss barrel version uses mostly brass, as lens weight was not a concern for process cameras, whereas the shuttered Docter version used aluminum. Brass is theoretically the slightly better material for mounts (e.g. less thermal expansion), thats why Zeiss used it, but there is the weight penalty.

Dan Fromm
21-May-2009, 15:00
"there is the weight penalty," he says.

Understatement of the month. For large lenses, its more harsh punishment than mere penalty.

Arne Croell
21-May-2009, 15:27
"there is the weight penalty," he says.

Understatement of the month. For large lenses, its more harsh punishment than mere penalty.

;-) The punishment is 1200g vs. 725g in this case, according to the official Docter numbers...

Dan Fromm
21-May-2009, 17:06
Arne, I just can't forget my former 600/9 Klimsch Apo Ronar, all 3.3 kg of it.

Cheers,

Dan

Oren Grad
1-Aug-2011, 19:41
So... has anyone tried it on 12x20?

Asher Kelman
26-Nov-2011, 15:04
;-) The punishment is 1200g vs. 725g in this case, according to the official Docter numbers...

My inventory says that 450mm f 9.0 Apo Germinar weighed in at 2lb 1/4 oz corresponding to 914 gm. So maybe I made a mistake, LOL I'll recheck it when it returns from SK Grimes for an an adapter to my Packard shutter and filter setup.

Asher

Steve M Hostetter
29-Nov-2011, 13:48
I have the Germinar apo 600mm f9.0 in barrel ... I've been playing with it on an 8x10" and it never seems to run out of IC using extreme movements.. It is hefty and pretty much gobbles up a 6x6" lens board.. Mine has a round aperture

steve

Asher Kelman
29-Nov-2011, 14:13
I have the Germinar apo 600mm f9.0 in barrel ... I've been playing with it on an 8x10" and it never seems to run out of IC using extreme movements.. It is hefty and pretty much gobbles up a 6x6" lens board.. Mine has a round aperture

steve

Steve,

What do you use it for. I wonder how much bellows you need for a full length portrait and what you'd need for head and shoulders. I think that 600 mm is pretty well the longest lens for an 8x10 for most of us without distorting the bellows and leaving the camera behind.

Asher

Steve M Hostetter
29-Nov-2011, 14:21
Asher,

I focus on a window at around 8' away and a little over half the window(3/0x4/0 is in frame and I'm racked out all the way with my 32" Korona bellows. I am also able to shift the front to the right and back to the left ... It mades the window sharp while distorting the leaves on trees on the outside..
My scanner is toast or I'd show you.. :/
steve

Asher Kelman
29-Nov-2011, 14:27
Asher,

I focus on a window at around 8' away and a little over half the window(3/0x4/0 is in frame and I'm racked out all the way with my 32" Korona bellows. I am also able to shift the front to the right and back to the left ... It mades the window sharp while distorting the leaves on trees on the outside..
My scanner is toast or I'd show you.. :/
steve

Steve,

Thanks! So that's really very much like a head and shoulders framing and still quite practical. I'd imagine a person could be photographed full length at about 9-10 ft with less extension. I should calculate it, really!!

Asher

Steve M Hostetter
29-Nov-2011, 17:01
I was wrong, the aperture isn't perfect round untill around f128 ... Yeah ,, a head and shoulder lens for sure

the barrel of this lens is real wide but narrow where it connects to the flange. The aperture ring is majorly stiff to turn. Glass is good and I got it cheap :)

wow, I just noticed that list said it has an IC of 1040mm

Arne Croell
30-Nov-2011, 06:07
I was wrong, the aperture isn't perfect round untill around f128 ... Yeah ,, a head and shoulder lens for sure

the barrel of this lens is real wide but narrow where it connects to the flange. The aperture ring is majorly stiff to turn. Glass is good and I got it cheap :)

wow, I just noticed that list said it has an IC of 1040mm

At 1:1 magnification!!!