View Full Version : A lil help on a wide angle lens?

Lee Christopher
20-May-2009, 12:55
This is the lens in question: Schneider Krueznach 65mm F5.6 Super Angulon

This is my camera: (http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/pd_vc.html)

I know, and I did try my best to read the specs here: http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/lens_list.html since I can't seem to find the specs on this particular len on the Schneider website. Is it a discontinued lens? Not a good design or ... ?

Here's what I found on the Horseman website:
Super-Angulon MC65mm F5.6 o Lens Panel drilled for #0 #0 170 72.5 57

As it's a big ticket item, I just need an extra pair of eyes to confirm that this lens will work - movements and infinity focus (I figured with bag bellows, normal board) on my Horseman LX.

The flange distance my camera needs is 60mm, and the lens has a flange distance of 72, so that should be kosher right?

It uses a Copal 0 shutter. No problem.

I will be using this lens initially with anything from 6x6 to 6x12 cm roll film (mostly 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12 actually), and later on 4x5.

Is there anything I should know like I won't be getting enough movement on those formats or something?

Does anyone know what the 35mm equivalent on a 6x7 and 6x12cm format would be like? Is there a way to roughly calculate this? :confused:

The lens lists for about US$750 and is described as MINT UNUSED. Is this a good price?

My other option is a RODENSTOCK GRANDAGON-N 65mm f4.5 Near Mint for abou the same price after shipping.

I'm sorry I know that's a whole lot of questions, and if it's too many, please let me know. I've been trying to read as much as I can these past few days, and the only dead-sure reference I have to rely on is that list from Horseman which just tells me what I can and cannot use. :(

Thanks in advance. :)

20-May-2009, 13:39
I just bought the same lens from KEH for half that, in "bargain" condition. KEH's bargain condition seems pretty excellent to me! But it's definitely not "mint, unused". And mine is older and not multicoated.

Schneider maintains vintage lens data, and here's the page for this lens:


The image circle is 170mm, which provides a pretty good movement capability (for such a wide lens) on 4x5, and is really generous for roll-film formats.

I suspect yours will focus fine on your Horseman using a flat lens board. But you'll proboably need a bag bellows to be able to shift the lens. On my Sinar F, the bag bellows are required for this lens. It will focus on my Cambo only with a recessed lens board and bag bellows, but the minimum bellows draw on the Horseman seems to indicate that it will work fine.

It has been replaced by the 58 and the 72mm Super Angulon XL's, but those mostly just add coverage rather than improved image quality. I hope the 65/5.6 SA is a good one for roll film--that's exactly how I intend to use mine.

Edit--on the 35mm equivalent. I find that relating it to the long dimension of the film gives me an idea of how a lens will feel in different formats, better than the official method of relating it to the diagonal of the film. The 65 is about 58% of the width of 6x12, and it's right at the width of 6x7. So, for 6x12, it will probably feel like a 24 on 35mm, and on 6x7, it will feel like a 35 on 35mm. That's assuming you crop the 35mm frame down to match 6x12, and just live with the different aspect ratio compared to 6x7. For 6x7, it's a moderate wide. For 6x12, it's a strong wide. For 4x5, the 65 is an ultrawide.

Rick "who always checks KEH for pricing before evaluating a deal" Denney

20-May-2009, 14:00
I can add some more input relative to 6x7. I own and use my 45mm Pentax lens a lot on a Pentax 6x7 body. Yesterday even. By all accounts it matches up with a 22mm lens on 35mm. That's wide. Pentax also made a 55mm lens that by all accounts relates to 28mm on 35mm. I would say that Rick is spot on in equating the 65mm lens on 6x7 to a 35mm on 35mm film. Wider than normal but not hard to use ultra wide.

Wayne "who loves a really wide lens in the right place at the right time."

Ron Marshall
20-May-2009, 15:23
35mm and 6x9 have about the same aspect ratio. Because of this, focal lengths can be compared by multiplying by their diagonal lengths (or side lengths).

The diagonal of 35mm is 43mm, of 6x9 (depends on the back) say 105mm, so the ratio is 2.4. So a 65mm on 6x9 will be about a 27mm on 35mm.

Check the prices on KEH to get an idea of what a fair price is. Their Excellent + lenses often look mint. Their Excellent grade have signs of use, but often not more than you would have on a new lens after one year's use.

Lee Christopher
20-May-2009, 17:39
Guys, you're AWESOME! :)

The lens in question, I suspect, is the multicoated one. All black, with the words writen on the outside of the rim very much like this one which KEH has listed: http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF069990762810&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=


But I have no idea what 'Linhof Synchronized for Flash Comp B' and '34 mount' mean, an don't know if I can use it on my Horseman board with the Copal #0 cutout.

The other one I see listed looks like an older version, though I may be wrong. http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF06999006931N&brandcategoryname=Large%20Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

Again, 'Flash Comp B' and '32' mount. I have no idea what they mean.

I can guess that the 42 and 32 refers to a mm cut-out in the lensboard? But what does 'Flash Comp B' mean?

At any rate, they're both rated as Excellent, and lists for about US$225 less. I fi can use these, I would love to save that $225!

My other option is a RODENSTOCK GRANDAGON-N 65mm f4.5 at about the same price of the SA65 - US$750.

But, on the $750 SA, I may be able to get a friend in that country to get it for me, and send it to me as a gift or something, so it might end up about a hundred lower than if I were to get the Rodenstock or the ones from KEH.

I know everyone says there's no difference between the big four, but between the SA and the Rodie, which do you figure might be better/more durable or less problamatic?

I did go through about 10 pages on the classifieds here, but didn't see anything like the SA or Rodie listed.

L - the one who owes Rick, Wayne and Ron a great debt of gratitude! - C

Ron Marshall
20-May-2009, 17:50
KEH lists shutters by the lensboard hole size; 35 is 35mm or Copal 0.

This may be a better choice for you, especially if you plan to shoot transparencies on 4x5, because it comes with a center filter:

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx?groupsku=LF06999103934N&brandcategoryname=Large Format&Mode=&item=0&ActivateTOC2=&ID=59&BC=LF&BCC=7&CC=6&CCC=2&BCL=&GBC=&GCC=

I find that even with neg film, 75mm is as wide as I can go withour a center filter. With my 55mm I always use a CF. You may be happy with neg film and the 65 on 4x5, no problem on 6x9.

Lee Christopher
21-May-2009, 05:59
Thanks Ron.

I saw that listing but didn't want to get the BGN version, and the other is our of my range.

I went to my friend's place and tried his 45 Rodie, as well as a 110 SA XL, albeit, oh his field cam. It was a Technika IIRC.

The 45 was sweet! But I can see limitations, and the definite need for a center-filter, no matter how much I like vignetting normally.

The 110 while superb, was too tight, so I guess I'll go for the 65 SA or the Rodie 65. Pity no one here has one for sale at the moment. Are they common in the classifieds in this forum?

21-May-2009, 06:05
It helps to know where you are. If you're in North America KEH has a 15 day return policy. I'm not sure how that works overseas. I know many people who buy KEH BGN grade hardware and are sastisfied with the products and the savings. This includes Leica bodies in KEH BGN grade. By all accounts, KEH grades are far better than many of the so called "mint" items on ebay.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Lee Christopher
21-May-2009, 06:34
Thing is, I'm in South East Asia.

Does KEH still have a return benefit for overseas customers? It doesn;t specify anything on their website for international customers.

Shipping alone would take 1-2 weeks normally so if a return is in the books, KEH would be looking at an item that might be out of their store for 2-4 weeks.

21-May-2009, 06:36
I was afraid of that. A phone call would clear up all of your questions.

A Want To Buy here might shake something loose.

Lee Christopher
21-May-2009, 06:40
I was afraid of that. A phone call would clear up all of your questions.

A Want To Buy here might shake something loose.

Hey! That's a great idea! Even though I didn't see anything listed for close to 10 pages ... who knows!

But could I ask, is there a feedback or rating system here, or what system do traders go by here?

Mark Sampson
21-May-2009, 08:04
As we're all members here, and dealers aren't allowed, I guess your reputation is what counts. If you search on a seller's other posts, you can get a sense of who they are. I've bought a few things, and sold a few things, all from/to different people, and never had a problem. There have been few reports of bad transactions between members that I can recall.

21-May-2009, 14:59
But I have no idea what 'Linhof Synchronized for Flash Comp B' and '34 mount' mean, an don't know if I can use it on my Horseman board with the Copal #0 cutout.

Both of the lenses on KEH's site use a Synchro-Compur #0 shutter, and require a lens board with a 34mm hole. Any lens board designed for a #0 shutter should work fine.

The one with the chrome stripes around the front cell is the same vintage as mine (70's) and is not multicoated. The one with the writing on the outside of the cell is newer and multicoated.

There is no special value to having the "Linhof"--it just means that it passed through Schneider's quality control process and Linhof agreed to have their logo put on it.

I doubt you'd notice any performance difference between a coated and a multicoated lens, except in a few situations perhaps, or any difference in performance between a Super Angulon and a Grandagon. I'd be happy with either. Durability issues and other problems are more related to the shutters than to the lenses, and neither Schneider nor Rodenstock use their own shutters--those are made by either Compur or Copal.

Frankly, I'd prefer a Copal shutter if given a choice. My old Compurs seem to demand more maintenance than my (admittedly not as old) Copals. But I have certainly not avoided decent deals on lenses in Compur shutters. The 65 that I bought was in a Copal #0. I suspect Linhof preferred to keep "Made in Germany" on the stuff they marketed, so the lenses with their logos have Compurs. Probably over half my lenses are in Compur shutters, despite my preference, and I use them happily.

My 47/5.6 is the same vintage as the one with the chrome stripes. My 90/5.6 is the same as the newer one, and my 121/8 is older than any of them. They are all outstanding.

Rick "whose Compur #00 on the 47 needs a good cleaning" Denney