shutter for INDUSTAR 300MM

[Albrecht Namatdurer]

Does anyone know of a dedicated shutter for the omnipresent INDUSTAR 300mm ?
I have heard that there was a Russian shutter specifically for these , can anyone throw any light on this?

[Gene McCluney]

I have never seen one of these in a shutter. The Russian camera market at one time made a Sinar clone, that had a behind-the-lens shutter.

[c.d.ewen]

I have never seen one of these in a shutter. The Russian camera market at one time made a Sinar clone, that had a behind-the-lens shutter.

This is a behind-the-lens shutter, but I don't think Sinar would appreciate any comparison.

Charley

[Paul Ewins]

Which Industar, the 11 (f9) or the 37 (f4.5)? The 11 is fractionally too small for a Compur 2B and too big for an Ilex/Alphax/Betax 3 so the only option would be an adapter to fit in a Copal 3 or 3S which would all cost way more than it is worth. The 37 would be too big for anything short of a number 5 in which case you might as well get a 300 Xenar in shutter and be done with it.

I have one of the behind the lens shutters which I bought as a curiosity more than anything. It is crude but works most of the time. The speeds are 1s, 1/2s, 1/15, 1/30, B & T which is useful in a limited way. From memory, each speed is timed off an individual cam which is probably why there are only four speeds. A quick look on eBay found one at $200 which is way more than its is worth. I certainly wouldn't pay more than $100 including postage for one.

[c.d.ewen]

The I-37 is not a good candidate for mounting into a modern shutter. The lens extends back a good inch from the flange threads (see photo), thus a long adapter would be needed to front mount it. Making adapters to mount the front and rear elements on either side of a modern shutter would also be difficult, as there is no rear cell - the glass elements are fitted directly into the barrel.

Paul's advice is sound. Choose another Tessar.

Charley

[c.d.ewen]

I don't know about the I-11, but I have a couple examples of the I-11M - a process lens. It's 450mm, f/9. It can be attached to this shutter, since lenses mount onto the shutter via their mounting flanges. In the photo, the I-37 flange is mounted, and the slightly smaller threaded I-11M flange is below.

I find it odd that these shutters don't have any markings, e.g., model number, serial number, manufacturing facility, etc. Seems to me that any other manufactured item from the old SU always had a model number.

Charley

[Paul Ewins]

Actually, the 300 f9 is also an 11M. I've got the 450 f9 version as well, but the only thing I can say is that it has the same flange size as an APO Nikkor 360/9. The flange that came with my shutter is too large for the 300 and too small for the 450, although obviously it could be cut larger to suit. I have attached the shutter to a 9" lensboard and have vague plans of getting more flanges made so that I can use more of my barrel lenses.

[c.d.ewen]

Paul:

Interesting. I don't have a Nikkor 360 f/9, so I can't say what thread it might have. Here are the flange thread sizes for the lenses I do have:

210mm f/4.5 M60x0.75 = I-4
300mm f/4.5 M80x0.75 = I-37
450mm f/9.0 M72x1.00 = I-11M

Charley

[Dan Fromm]

Interesting, Charley. The 450/9 RF-5 is also M72x1.00, with quite a lot of rear cell behind the mounting threads.

[c.d.ewen]

Dan:

Guess it'll fit the shutter in question. Did it come with a flange with three screw slots? That's how these other lenses attach to the shutter.

Seems to me that back when SU lenses were more common on ebay, the sellers would tout the RF-5 as some kind of special-purpose lens. Any opinion?

Charley

[Dan Fromm]

Charley, my RF-5 didn't come with a flange.

It is a process lens, IMO just another process lens. As I count reflections and see curves it looks like a 4/4 double Gauss type. The 1971 Yakovlev catalog (find it here: http://www.lallement.com/pictures/files.htm) gives cross sections for RF-3, -4, and -5, shows all as 6/4 double Gauss, says they're intended for use at 1:10. I've had my RF-5 apart for cleaning, can't detect a weak reflection from either inner element.

I've never used it seriously. Got it for $50 after I gave up on finding an affordable 480/9 Apo Nikkor. It passed acceptance testing (shot well enough hung in front of a Nikon) and then I lucked into a 480/9 Apo Nikkor. I shoot 2x3, with lenses much longer than normal for the format I pay attention only to central resolution.

People selling these lenses tend to rave. I'm not sure that the lens' performance justifies the raving.

Cheers,

Dan

[Arne Croell]

Charley, my RF-5 didn't come with a flange.

It is a process lens, IMO just another process lens. As I count reflections and see curves it looks like a 4/4 double Gauss type. The 1971 Yakovlev catalog (find it here: http://www.lallement.com/pictures/files.htm) gives cross sections for RF-3, -4, and -5, shows all as 6/4 double Gauss, says they're intended for use at 1:10. I've had my RF-5 apart for cleaning, can't detect a weak reflection from either inner element.


Dan, thanks for the link, that one was new to me. Up to a few minutes ago I also believed the RF-1, 3, 4, and 5 were 4/4 Gauss. The catalog image prompted me to check again. And actually there is a reflection from a cemented interface, VERY weak, in both the RF 3, 4 and 5 that I own. To see it, I had to unscrew the cell from the barrel mount and then the inner group from the cell, and go into a dark room. It is easier to see when looking from the inner surface of the group. Very easy to miss, one reason being that the reflections from the main surfaces are so strong and colorful, as with most Russian lenses. So it is a 6/4 after all - one lives and one learns.

[c.d.ewen]

Excellent reference, Dan. I see the several I-11M variants. Now I've got serious G.A.S. Anybody got a Neptune for sale?

There's a lot there to digest. One thing that occurred to me is that there don't seem to be many ULF lenses - one 50x50cm, a few 30x30cm, but the wide selection seems to end at the 18x24cm size.

Charley

[Dan Fromm]

Arne, thanks for checking and reporting. I took y'r hint and looked again, found the very weak reflection. Very very hard to see. I'm not ashamed of having missed it earlier.

Charley, most of the long lenses with large coverage shown in the three catalogs accessible through link's on Seb's site are for aerial camera. Very hard to find; the longer ones are pretty heavy too, just like the western equivalents.

If you root around on http://www.photohistory.ru/1208091119011488.html you'll find newer lenses not in the catalogs on Seb's site. Some are very interesting.

FWIW, I've had a handful of Soviet lenses. 210/4.5 Industar-51, quite common, mine was mediocre; sold. 100/2.5 Uran-27, very hard to put to use, as they say in the VM, but usable; there are better fast normal lenses for 2x3, though. 100/2.8 Era-7, a mystery and not tried yet; the Russians say it is very sharp wide open over a small field. And the 450/9 RF-5.

Cheers,

Dan

[c.d.ewen]

Dan:

I'm afraid I tossed most of my Russian tongue to the devil, so rooting on that site will take some time. Thanks for the reference.

I noted one mention of the I-51 210/4.5 as a projection lens. I hunted up my precious 1941 exemplar, and saw that I had front-mounted it years ago to a Copal 3. Can't remember how it performed.

I've got to get around to mounting that 450/9. Although at 45 degrees, it should only cover 8x10, my memory was that it covered quite a bit more, and was thus a cheap sleeper.

Guess I've got some more projects for the long weekend.

Oh, one last thing for the OP - that shutter weighs almost 2 lbs. It's a 5.5"x5.5"x1.125" metal box, with no obvious way of mounting to camera, other than 4 threaded holes in the back panel. A Packard is a better choice.

Charley

[monkeymon]

I haven't seen these shutter anywhere else, but i got mine from wooden fkd camera... it had 300mm industar mounted on it via an aluminium adapter. The actual shutter has m72x0.75 threading. I installed the flash synch afterwards, it has only one speed (about 1/15 - 1/25) and B. It has no markings other than the M & B.

[jvuokko]

I bought Industar 37 T (300mm/4.5) recently and am also looking for a shutter solution.

c.d.ewen wrote good information about the thread size:
300mm f/4.5 M80x0.75 = I-37

So I guess that next step is to look for a shutter with that thread or just some big and simple shutter and adapter for I-37.
I will use this lens probably only for portraits, so quite simple shutter will do the job.
Perhaps one time for flash sync (around 1/50 ... 1/20) and just B.

[jvuokko]

I bought Industar 37 T (300mm/4.5) recently and am also looking for a shutter solution.

c.d.ewen wrote good information about the thread size:
300mm f/4.5 M80x0.75 = I-37

So I guess that next step is to look for a shutter with that thread or just some big and simple shutter and adapter for I-37.
I will use this lens probably only for portraits, so quite simple shutter will do the job.
Perhaps one time for flash sync (around 1/50 ... 1/20) and just B.